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techtalk:ih:elec03t [2023/04/11 03:30] hippysmack [Numbers Found on Various Horns] |
techtalk:ih:elec03t [2023/12/30 03:14] (current) hippysmack |
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| ====== Pics and Information on Factory 1965-1985 Ironhead Horns ====== | ====== Pics and Information on Factory 1965-1985 Ironhead Horns ====== | ||
| ====== Horn Manufacturer ====== | ====== Horn Manufacturer ====== | ||
| - | These are Delco-Remy automotive horns that were installed on Ironhead Sportsters. \\ | + | These are GM Delco-Remy automotive horns that were installed on Ironhead Sportsters. Harley Davidson did not make horns. \\ |
| Per the Delco-Remy history website, Delco-Remy got into the horn business in 1924 with the purchase of the Klaxon Horn Company in Newark, NJ. ((http://www.delcoremyhistory.com/Products/horns.htm)) It had been determined that Remy could build the horn at a lower cost than Klaxon and the manufacturing equipment was moved from New York to the third floor of Plant One, where horn manufacture remained until 1946 when it moved to Plant 7. The manufacture of horns remained there until it moved to Plant 10 in the 1980's. This was its last location until the product line was sold in the late 1990's. \\ | Per the Delco-Remy history website, Delco-Remy got into the horn business in 1924 with the purchase of the Klaxon Horn Company in Newark, NJ. ((http://www.delcoremyhistory.com/Products/horns.htm)) It had been determined that Remy could build the horn at a lower cost than Klaxon and the manufacturing equipment was moved from New York to the third floor of Plant One, where horn manufacture remained until 1946 when it moved to Plant 7. The manufacture of horns remained there until it moved to Plant 10 in the 1980's. This was its last location until the product line was sold in the late 1990's. \\ | ||
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| It also seems there are conflicting stories whether the last number of the date code denotes the day or the week on DR horns, \\ | It also seems there are conflicting stories whether the last number of the date code denotes the day or the week on DR horns, \\ | ||
| (against the grain from generator, regulator etc. type date codes). \\ | (against the grain from generator, regulator etc. type date codes). \\ | ||
| - | Example: A horn with 7G3 (1967, July, March) date code may end up as 3G7 instead from a factory install. \\ | + | Example: A horn with 7G3 (1967, July, 3rd Week) date code may end up as 3G7 instead from a factory install. \\ |
| And on early horns, the date code may be readably stamped or the last number would fall off the ID pad. \\ | And on early horns, the date code may be readably stamped or the last number would fall off the ID pad. \\ | ||
| As normal for the time, it seems quality control was an issue in the stamping department. \\ | As normal for the time, it seems quality control was an issue in the stamping department. \\ | ||
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| * Die-cast horns: | * Die-cast horns: | ||
| * The die-cast horns have a (Delco Remy) 7 digit part number stamped on the bottom left corner when facing the back (mounting side of the horn. \\ Within the 7 digit part number, the first 4 digits are the horn series (9000) and the last 3 digits pertain to the horn tone. \\ Is it a coincidence the Harley part numbers for standard "F" horns begin with 6(9000)-..? \\ F tone (low) horns last 3 digits are (513) and A tone (high) horns last 3 digits are (514). | * The die-cast horns have a (Delco Remy) 7 digit part number stamped on the bottom left corner when facing the back (mounting side of the horn. \\ Within the 7 digit part number, the first 4 digits are the horn series (9000) and the last 3 digits pertain to the horn tone. \\ Is it a coincidence the Harley part numbers for standard "F" horns begin with 6(9000)-..? \\ F tone (low) horns last 3 digits are (513) and A tone (high) horns last 3 digits are (514). | ||
| - | * The date code is stamped on the bottom right opposite the part number. | + | * The date code is stamped on the bottom right opposite the part number. \\ In the case of twin horns found on a Sportster (as in the factory kits), it'd be extremely uncommon to find matching date codes on the two horns. |
| * Early die casts were stamped on the projector side bottom right and coded for the signal tone it produced above the molded "Delco Remy" signature. \\ Example: (LO) for low tone, (HI) for high tone etc). | * Early die casts were stamped on the projector side bottom right and coded for the signal tone it produced above the molded "Delco Remy" signature. \\ Example: (LO) for low tone, (HI) for high tone etc). | ||
| * Later die-cast horns had one letter embedded inside a circle in the same location. \\ Example: Circled (L) for low tone, circled (H) for high tone. | * Later die-cast horns had one letter embedded inside a circle in the same location. \\ Example: Circled (L) for low tone, circled (H) for high tone. | ||
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| * The plastic horns do not have the part numbers on them. "Delco Remy" is molded on the rear of the projector's outlet. | * The plastic horns do not have the part numbers on them. "Delco Remy" is molded on the rear of the projector's outlet. | ||
| * The horn tone is denoted by the actual letter stamped of the musical note it produces molded on the long side of the rear projector outlet. \\ Example: (F) for low tone or (A) for high tone etc. | * The horn tone is denoted by the actual letter stamped of the musical note it produces molded on the long side of the rear projector outlet. \\ Example: (F) for low tone or (A) for high tone etc. | ||
| - | * Instead of the part number, there is a 6 digit serial number near the tone letter past a molded divider. \\ The first 3 numbers pertain to the signal tone. The last 3 are either a date code or sequential number. \\ Noted below are date codes / serial numbers found on some plastic/steel horns and comments based on the above information. \\ All horns have screw/nut mounting with removable brackets. | + | * Instead of the part number, there is a 6 digit serial number near the tone letter past a molded divider. \\ The first 3 numbers pertain to the signal tone. The last 3 are either a date code or sequential number. \\ Noted below are date codes / serial numbers found on some plastic/steel horns and comments based on the above information. \\ All horns noted have screw/nut mounting with removable brackets. |
| * F Horns: | * F Horns: | ||
| * 1305E3, 1306F2, 1307H5.... number combinations all begin with 130. Last three seemingly (Year, Month, Day) except for a 130D1L. | * 1305E3, 1306F2, 1307H5.... number combinations all begin with 130. Last three seemingly (Year, Month, Day) except for a 130D1L. | ||
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| * C Horns: | * C Horns: | ||
| * 1416C2... number combinations all begin with 141. Last three seemingly (Year, Month, Day) | * 1416C2... number combinations all begin with 141. Last three seemingly (Year, Month, Day) | ||
| + | * European standards: | ||
| + | * If you find an "E" inside a circle or box on the horn, this is the European standard code number. The part is "E" approved. \\ The uppercase "E" in a circle means the device is type approved to an ECE Regulation. \\ While the lowercase "e" in a box indicates the device is type approved to an EEC Directive. \\ It's rare to find one marking without the other, since the requirements are essentially identical. ((https://www.truckelectrics.com/blogs/news/e-mark-what-it-means-is-e1-the-best)) \\ The number after the "E" or "e" signifies the country in which approval was granted. \\ The coding "Circled, E-6" has been found on NOS HD factory replacement horns which adheres to Belgium standards. | ||
| A large portion of auto horns have spot welded mounting brackets and will not easily mount to a Harley without modifications. \\ | A large portion of auto horns have spot welded mounting brackets and will not easily mount to a Harley without modifications. \\ | ||
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| The horns listed interchange. The (separate) brackets that might come with them will not interchange with Harley Davidson motorcycles. \\ | The horns listed interchange. The (separate) brackets that might come with them will not interchange with Harley Davidson motorcycles. \\ | ||
| But if you are searching for a period correct horn, any of these will work as listed below. Just toss the included bracket since it's not welded on.\\ | But if you are searching for a period correct horn, any of these will work as listed below. Just toss the included bracket since it's not welded on.\\ | ||
| + | The 9000XXX numbers are the horn part# itself and the superseded numbers are horn and bracket assemblies. \\ | ||
| ^ {{techtalk:miscres:instruction_sheet_header_4.png?nolink&880|}} |||||| | ^ {{techtalk:miscres:instruction_sheet_header_4.png?nolink&880|}} |||||| | ||
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| | 1970-1985 P-Clamp (10026) ((photo courtesy of BIKERSNOS.com. [[https://www.ebay.com/str/bikersnos?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | 1970-1985 Twin Horn Cable (70318-70) ((photo courtesy of BIKERSNOS.com. [[https://www.ebay.com/str/bikersnos?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | | | 1970-1985 P-Clamp (10026) ((photo courtesy of BIKERSNOS.com. [[https://www.ebay.com/str/bikersnos?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | 1970-1985 Twin Horn Cable (70318-70) ((photo courtesy of BIKERSNOS.com. [[https://www.ebay.com/str/bikersnos?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1970-1985_sportster_p-clamp_10026_for_twin_horn_kit_by_bikersnos.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1970-1985_sportster_twin_horn_cable_70318-70_by_bikersnos.jpg?direct&300|}} | | |{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1970-1985_sportster_p-clamp_10026_for_twin_horn_kit_by_bikersnos.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1970-1985_sportster_twin_horn_cable_70318-70_by_bikersnos.jpg?direct&300|}} | | ||
| + | |||
| ====== Bracketry and Hardware ====== | ====== Bracketry and Hardware ====== | ||
| The horn mounting brackets are not the actual motor mounts but rather attach to the motor mounts. \\ | The horn mounting brackets are not the actual motor mounts but rather attach to the motor mounts. \\ | ||
| [[techtalk:ih:engmech09|Click Here]] to view information on motor mounts. \\ | [[techtalk:ih:engmech09|Click Here]] to view information on motor mounts. \\ | ||
| - | There was a truck load of changes in the horn mounts between late 1970 till 1975. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-1492366.html)) The changes weren't really cataloged in the part books. \\ | + | There was a truck load of changes in the horn mounts between late 1970 till 1975. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/137567-pre-1973-horn-mounting)) The changes weren't really cataloged in the part books. \\ |
| Basically: \\ | Basically: \\ | ||
| 1965-1970 all used the same geometry. 1965 and 1966 used different stuff than 67> but the end result was same. \\ | 1965-1970 all used the same geometry. 1965 and 1966 used different stuff than 67> but the end result was same. \\ | ||
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| There are so many different brackets used that having mismatched stuff is common changing horn position to who knows where. \\ | There are so many different brackets used that having mismatched stuff is common changing horn position to who knows where. \\ | ||
| - | The pics below show the low seat key switch position and orientation for E1971 and 1972 Sportsters. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1851686&highlight=xlh+keyswitch&page=3)) \\ | + | The pics below show the low seat key switch position and orientation for E1971 and 1972 Sportsters. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172717-buddy-seat-what-is-this-and-does-anyone-have-a-line-on-one/page3?t=1851686&highlight=xlh+keyswitch&page=3)) \\ |
| The low seat required the switch to moved to the motor mount as mentioned above but it was a real tight fit between the horn bracketry and the rear head on E1971 models. \\ | The low seat required the switch to moved to the motor mount as mentioned above but it was a real tight fit between the horn bracketry and the rear head on E1971 models. \\ | ||
| Take a close look at the early 1971 XLH below fitted with the "2nd version" of the accessory seat setup. \\ | Take a close look at the early 1971 XLH below fitted with the "2nd version" of the accessory seat setup. \\ | ||
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| The 72 switch housing itself is physically smaller (the red off-run-lights washer behind the switch was tossed by almost everyone owing a 72). \\ | The 72 switch housing itself is physically smaller (the red off-run-lights washer behind the switch was tossed by almost everyone owing a 72). \\ | ||
| - | | E1971 XLH, w/ standard seat, key switch location ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1851686&highlight=xlh+keyswitch&page=3)) | 1972 XLCH, w/ low seat, key switch location ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1851686&highlight=xlh+keyswitch&page=3)) | | + | | E1971 XLH, w/ standard seat, key switch location ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172717-buddy-seat-what-is-this-and-does-anyone-have-a-line-on-one/page3?t=1851686&highlight=xlh+keyswitch&page=3)) | 1972 XLCH, w/ low seat, key switch location ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/172717-buddy-seat-what-is-this-and-does-anyone-have-a-line-on-one/page3?t=1851686&highlight=xlh+keyswitch&page=3)) | |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1971e_xlh_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&450|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1972_xlch_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&450|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1971e_xlh_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&450|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1972_xlch_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&450|}}| | ||
| + | |||
| ==== Horn Mounting Bracket ==== | ==== Horn Mounting Bracket ==== | ||
| This is the bracket the horn directly mounts to. All 1965-1985 Sportster horns are basically hung from a bracket between the cylinders on/from the motor mount. \\ | This is the bracket the horn directly mounts to. All 1965-1985 Sportster horns are basically hung from a bracket between the cylinders on/from the motor mount. \\ | ||
| The horn is hard mounted to it's bracket by a nut on back of the horn with a rubber isolator mount between the horn bracket and it's supporting bracket. \\ | The horn is hard mounted to it's bracket by a nut on back of the horn with a rubber isolator mount between the horn bracket and it's supporting bracket. \\ | ||
| + | Also note, these horns are designed to mount with the mouth of the projector pointing down to drain any condensation that may gather inside. \\ | ||
| + | Mounting the horn in any other position requires a drain hole due South through the projector path from the position the horn is mounted. \\ | ||
| 1965 XLH/XLCH used horn bracket (69052-65). \\ | 1965 XLH/XLCH used horn bracket (69052-65). \\ | ||
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| 1965-E1970 rubber mount (69125-65) has 5/16"-18 threads each side. \\ | 1965-E1970 rubber mount (69125-65) has 5/16"-18 threads each side. \\ | ||
| L1970-1985 rubber mount (62563-65) has 1/4"-20 threads each side. \\ | L1970-1985 rubber mount (62563-65) has 1/4"-20 threads each side. \\ | ||
| - | In L1971, the low seat was available factory installed for the 1st time. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4010785&highlight=horn+bumper#post4010785)) \\ | + | In L1971, the low seat was available factory installed for the 1st time. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/137567-pre-1973-horn-mounting?highlight=horn+bumper#post4010785)) \\ |
| The low seat required the ignition switch to moved from right side under the hi seat to the left side on top motor mount (where it fouled the horn brackets). \\ | The low seat required the ignition switch to moved from right side under the hi seat to the left side on top motor mount (where it fouled the horn brackets). \\ | ||
| At first new brackets with deeper offsets (that used the old 5/16" rubber mounts) were installed that opened up room for the switch. \\ | At first new brackets with deeper offsets (that used the old 5/16" rubber mounts) were installed that opened up room for the switch. \\ | ||
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| | 1965-1966 XLH/XLCH Metal Ground Strap ((photo used with permission)) | 1967-1985 Sportster Braided Ground Strap ((photo courtesy of Ebay seller,1rosesofwood, [[https://www.ebay.com/str/rosesofwood?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | Grounding Strap Location ((photos courtesy of Flashback Enterprises in Imlay City, MI, [[https://www.ebay.com/str/flashbackenterprisesinc?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | | | 1965-1966 XLH/XLCH Metal Ground Strap ((photo used with permission)) | 1967-1985 Sportster Braided Ground Strap ((photo courtesy of Ebay seller,1rosesofwood, [[https://www.ebay.com/str/rosesofwood?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | Grounding Strap Location ((photos courtesy of Flashback Enterprises in Imlay City, MI, [[https://www.ebay.com/str/flashbackenterprisesinc?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2563|Link to Ebay Store]] )) | | ||
| |{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1965-1966_xlh-xlch_metal_horn_strap_70016-65.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1967-1985_sportster_horn_ground_strap_70016-65a_by_1rosesofwood.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1965-1985_sportster_horn_ground_location_by_flashback_enterprises.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1965-1966_xlh-xlch_metal_horn_strap_70016-65.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1967-1985_sportster_horn_ground_strap_70016-65a_by_1rosesofwood.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:elec:1965-1985_sportster_horn_ground_location_by_flashback_enterprises.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| + | |||
| ==== Horn Bumper Bracket (L73-85) ==== | ==== Horn Bumper Bracket (L73-85) ==== | ||
| - | The bumper bracket came about in late 1973 due to a rattling horn problem on L71-E73 "low seat" bikes. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4551626&highlight=horn+bumper#post4551626)) \\ | + | The bumper bracket came about in late 1973 due to a rattling horn problem on L71-E73 "low seat" bikes. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/139964-72-maintance/page5?highlight=horn+bumper#post3318950)) \\ |
| The bracket part number is (69041-73) and it has the large hole in the center to go over the horn threads on the horn mount bracket. \\ | The bracket part number is (69041-73) and it has the large hole in the center to go over the horn threads on the horn mount bracket. \\ | ||
| Also there are 2 smaller holes on each end to pop rubber bumpers (69042-73) in to damper horn movement. \\ | Also there are 2 smaller holes on each end to pop rubber bumpers (69042-73) in to damper horn movement. \\ | ||
| - | The rubbers keep the horn from flopping around too much, hitting fins and/or shaking the wire loose from slip-on terminal. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4010785&highlight=horn+bumper#post4010785)) \\ | + | The rubbers keep the horn from flopping around too much, hitting fins and/or shaking the wire loose from slip-on terminal. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/137567-pre-1973-horn-mounting?highlight=horn+bumper#post4010785)) \\ |
| The bumpers got a new part number in 1981 to (11428). \\ | The bumpers got a new part number in 1981 to (11428). \\ | ||
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| ==== Hardware ==== | ==== Hardware ==== | ||
| - | |||
| V-Twin Mfg. has a Horn Cover Mounting Hardware Kit (37-8804) that includes the 3 screws, 3 lock washers, 3 hex nuts, 1 speed nut and 1 spacer. \\ | V-Twin Mfg. has a Horn Cover Mounting Hardware Kit (37-8804) that includes the 3 screws, 3 lock washers, 3 hex nuts, 1 speed nut and 1 spacer. \\ | ||
| Their add says these parts replace HD 1719W, 7015, 7608 and 8125. | Their add says these parts replace HD 1719W, 7015, 7608 and 8125. | ||
