Differences
This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.
| Both sides previous revision Previous revision Next revision | Previous revision | ||
|
techtalk:ih:oil03p [2021/11/11 21:07] hippysmack [Inspect the oil pump cover and body] |
techtalk:ih:oil03p [2024/01/01 20:03] (current) hippysmack |
||
|---|---|---|---|
| Line 20: | Line 20: | ||
| * Silicone should not be used anywhere on a Sportster motor. \\ If so, you may find pieces of it in the oil pump or in the small orifics and oil galleys within the motor. \\ The push / pull of crankcase pressure can implode gaskets and especially sealants like silicone. \\ This will stop up the oil paths in the motor and if caught early enough, can be flushed out before catastrophic damage happens. | * Silicone should not be used anywhere on a Sportster motor. \\ If so, you may find pieces of it in the oil pump or in the small orifics and oil galleys within the motor. \\ The push / pull of crankcase pressure can implode gaskets and especially sealants like silicone. \\ This will stop up the oil paths in the motor and if caught early enough, can be flushed out before catastrophic damage happens. | ||
| - | |Silicone 'gummy bear' sheet found in the feed side ((photo by (-_-) of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074835&page=3))| | + | |Silicone 'gummy bear' sheet found in the feed side ((photo by (-_-) of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/efi-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2007-and-up/198113-help-me-figure-out-weird-engine-braking/page3?t=2074835&page=3))| |
| - | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pump_damage_3_by_-_-_-_annotated.jpg?direct&300|}} | | + | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pump_damage_3_by_-_-_-_annotated.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
| === Inspect the ridge in the cover === | === Inspect the ridge in the cover === | ||
| Line 30: | Line 30: | ||
| === Inspect the gerotor surface for flatness in the oil pump cover and housing === | === Inspect the gerotor surface for flatness in the oil pump cover and housing === | ||
| - | |||
| An oil pump cover found with an uneven gerotor surface should be removed. \\ | An oil pump cover found with an uneven gerotor surface should be removed. \\ | ||
| If the gerotor widths measure equally but they are not equal in height when placed into the cover, the cover surface is not flat. \\ | If the gerotor widths measure equally but they are not equal in height when placed into the cover, the cover surface is not flat. \\ | ||
| Line 40: | Line 39: | ||
| Many (most perhaps) used oil pumps have scratches on both the gerotors and pump surfaces that the gerotors ride on. \\ | Many (most perhaps) used oil pumps have scratches on both the gerotors and pump surfaces that the gerotors ride on. \\ | ||
| - | But, there is one certain spot that seems to be scratched more times than others. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071153&page=6)) \\ | + | But, there is one certain spot that seems to be scratched more times than others. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/194881-let-s-study-the-77-85-oil-pump-parts-and-changes-and-when/page6?t=2071153&page=6)) \\ |
| It's on the larger of the two pads in the pump body and the cover seem to usually have more wear. \\ | It's on the larger of the two pads in the pump body and the cover seem to usually have more wear. \\ | ||
| Sometimes, the small pad is scratched or damaged also but not always. \\ | Sometimes, the small pad is scratched or damaged also but not always. \\ | ||
| Line 68: | Line 67: | ||
| They'll both flow faster when hot. \\ | They'll both flow faster when hot. \\ | ||
| - | | Gerotor rotation (cover shown) ((photos by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071153&page=6)) || | + | | Gerotor rotation (cover shown) ((photos by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/194881-let-s-study-the-77-85-oil-pump-parts-and-changes-and-when/page6?t=2071153&page=6)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_9a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_10a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_9a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_10a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| Line 98: | Line 97: | ||
| Any marked reusable should still be pressure tested and observed if you'll be using them. \\ | Any marked reusable should still be pressure tested and observed if you'll be using them. \\ | ||
| - | |Metal chunk lodged in return inlet. \\ The one medium scratch on big pad is some concern. \\ Small amount of recirculation oil internally. \\ Metal debris lessens amount of pickup oil at once. \\ May be reusable with further observation ((photo by sc72 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1717592&page=15))|Deep and wide channel ripped into big pad. \\ Light scratches across small pad. \\ High possibility of recirculating oil internally, \\ (feed outlet to feed inlet thru big pad scratch) \\ Owner said oil was not returning. \\ Should be replaced. ((photo by Rolli of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5877838&highlight=oil+pump#post5877838))|A gearshaft pin sheared and got into the return cavity. \\ It broke out a corner of the big pad. \\ The remaining flat surface of pad is undamaged. \\ Should be reusable with further observation. ((photo by DirtyCory of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1297584&page=2))| | + | |Metal chunk lodged in return inlet. \\ The one medium scratch on big pad is some concern. \\ Small amount of recirculation oil internally. \\ Metal debris lessens amount of pickup oil at once. \\ May be reusable with further observation ((photo by sc72 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/160106-where-to-go-from-here/page15?t=1717592&page=15))|Deep and wide channel ripped into big pad. \\ Light scratches across small pad. \\ High possibility of recirculating oil internally, \\ (feed outlet to feed inlet thru big pad scratch) \\ Owner said oil was not returning. \\ Should be replaced. ((photo by Rolli of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/201663-1983-ironhead-oil-not-returning?highlight=oil+pump#post4475667))|A gearshaft pin sheared and got into the return cavity. \\ It broke out a corner of the big pad. \\ The remaining flat surface of pad is undamaged. \\ Should be reusable with further observation. ((photo by DirtyCory of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/127032-getting-this-78-back-to-the-way-it-should-be/page2?t=1297584&page=2))| |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983_sportster_oil_pump_body_by_sc72.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_oil_pump_scratches_by_rolli.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1978_oil_pump_body_by_dirtycory.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983_sportster_oil_pump_body_by_sc72.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_oil_pump_scratches_by_rolli.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1978_oil_pump_body_by_dirtycory.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| === Check for cracks in the housing and cover === | === Check for cracks in the housing and cover === | ||
| - | |||
| The cover below was cracked at the oil pressure switch end from tightening the pressure switch too tight. \\ | The cover below was cracked at the oil pressure switch end from tightening the pressure switch too tight. \\ | ||
| The crack was welded over and a Dremil tool was used to reshape the cover. \\ | The crack was welded over and a Dremil tool was used to reshape the cover. \\ | ||
| Due to warpage during welding, the threads need to be chased with a tap to straighten them back out. \\ | Due to warpage during welding, the threads need to be chased with a tap to straighten them back out. \\ | ||
| - | | Repair on oil pump cover ((photos by acb2 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=554323)) || Oil Switch Torque ((drawing by Hippysmack)) | | + | | Repair on oil pump cover ((photos by acb2 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/77330-oil-pump-1977-up?t=554323)) || Oil Switch Torque ((drawing by Hippysmack)) | |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_1_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_2_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pressure_switch_threads_by_hippysmack.png?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_1_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_2_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pressure_switch_threads_by_hippysmack.png?direct&300|}}| | ||
| === Inspect the Housing Roll Pin === | === Inspect the Housing Roll Pin === | ||
| - | |||
| The roll pin is installed into the "shelf" between the housing bores and it normally shouldn't see any shear force. \\ | The roll pin is installed into the "shelf" between the housing bores and it normally shouldn't see any shear force. \\ | ||
| All internals depend on the strength of the solid pins, and the drive gear. \\ | All internals depend on the strength of the solid pins, and the drive gear. \\ | ||
| Line 144: | Line 141: | ||
| * The solid shear pins in the gearshaft may be different lengths and/or different OD. \\ There is no spec for the pins in the service manual. | * The solid shear pins in the gearshaft may be different lengths and/or different OD. \\ There is no spec for the pins in the service manual. | ||
| * The pins main function is to turn the gerotors. \\ Pin construction is designed to be the weak point and let go if the pump gets jammed with solid objects. \\ (like bits of metal etc in the gears, or if the oil pump bushings seize etc). | * The pins main function is to turn the gerotors. \\ Pin construction is designed to be the weak point and let go if the pump gets jammed with solid objects. \\ (like bits of metal etc in the gears, or if the oil pump bushings seize etc). | ||
| - | * Just putting a new shear pin back in without fully rebuilding the pump and checking for jamming or seizing is begging for the same thing to happen again. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1232889)) | + | * Just putting a new shear pin back in without fully rebuilding the pump and checking for jamming or seizing is begging for the same thing to happen again. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/49875-heeeeeeeeeeelpppp-meeeeeeeeee-motor-dying-in-4th-gear/page2#post1049264)) |
| * The gerotors are much taller than the pin thickness. | * The gerotors are much taller than the pin thickness. | ||
| * So the height of the slot allows a fudge factor on quick throttle blips and the gerotors won't be affected. \\ The gearshaft will rise some on higher throttle and there is built in "up and down" clearance in the pump to allow this. \\ | * So the height of the slot allows a fudge factor on quick throttle blips and the gerotors won't be affected. \\ The gearshaft will rise some on higher throttle and there is built in "up and down" clearance in the pump to allow this. \\ | ||
| - | * The pins are not pressed into the gearshaft and the holes in the gearshaft for the pins are different depths on several used gearshafts inspected. \\ Knowing this, it makes sense to be aware that the holes in the shaft can wallow out or the loose fit of the pins can wear the pins faster. \\ You can buy a handful of new pins only to find they are all different dims as well. \\ If you find real slop in the pin fit to the pins, either replace the pins and/or the gearshaft. \\ Do not buy hardened pins as that will defeat the purpose of the "shear pin" design. If the pins only protrude slightly into the gerotor slots, use longer pins. \\ | + | * The pins are not pressed into the gearshaft and the holes in the gearshaft for the pins are different depths on several used gearshafts inspected. \\ Knowing this, it makes sense to be aware that the holes in the shaft can wallow out or the loose fit of the pins can wear the pins faster. \\ You can buy a handful of new pins only to find they are all different dims as well. \\ If you find real slop in the pin fit to the gearshaft, either replace the pins and/or the gearshaft. \\ Do not buy hardened pins as that will defeat the purpose of the "shear pin" design. If the pins only protrude slightly into the gerotor slots, use longer pins. \\ |
| The pics below are used parts but show the pin locations and how they look installed with a gerotor on the shaft. \\ | The pics below are used parts but show the pin locations and how they look installed with a gerotor on the shaft. \\ | ||
| Line 155: | Line 152: | ||
| ===== Inspect both gerotor sets ===== | ===== Inspect both gerotor sets ===== | ||
| - | |||
| Clean both gerotor sets with solvent, brake cleaner etc. \\ | Clean both gerotor sets with solvent, brake cleaner etc. \\ | ||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| Line 173: | Line 169: | ||
| (R - below) The inner feed gerotor broke into 4 separate pieces starting from the slot in the gerotor where the gearshaft pin catches it. \\ | (R - below) The inner feed gerotor broke into 4 separate pieces starting from the slot in the gerotor where the gearshaft pin catches it. \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983l-1985_outer_gerotor-_cracked_by_attaxic.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Attaxic of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2078758&page=4)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_inner_feed_gerotor_broken_by_freewheeler.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Freewheeler of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1869407)) \\ | + | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983l-1985_outer_gerotor-_cracked_by_attaxic.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Attaxic of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/201663-1983-ironhead-oil-not-returning/page4?t=2078758&page=4)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_inner_feed_gerotor_broken_by_freewheeler.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Freewheeler of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/174337-homebrew-ironhead-sheared-oil-pump-pin?threadid=1869407)) \\ |
| \\ | \\ | ||
| **Check inner to outer gerotor clearance on each gerotor set**. \\ | **Check inner to outer gerotor clearance on each gerotor set**. \\ | ||
| Each gerotor set is made with an inner and outer piece. Mesh the two pieces together (as they normally would sit in operation). \\ | Each gerotor set is made with an inner and outer piece. Mesh the two pieces together (as they normally would sit in operation). \\ | ||
| + | This clearance has a direct relationship to oil pump flow and oil pressure. \\ | ||
| + | The wider the clearance the more the gerotors lose their ability to hold enough pressure to the outlet cavity. \\ | ||
| + | They also the ability to transfer oil from the feed cavity back to the inlet cavity and recirculate oil within the oil pump. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| * Arrange so there is 1 inner tooth facing the center of the wide outer radius. \\ Use a feeler gauge between the inner tooth and outer radius there for a maximum of .004" clearance between them. \\ If the clearance is larger than .004", replace the affected gearotor set. Repeat for the other gerotor set. | * Arrange so there is 1 inner tooth facing the center of the wide outer radius. \\ Use a feeler gauge between the inner tooth and outer radius there for a maximum of .004" clearance between them. \\ If the clearance is larger than .004", replace the affected gearotor set. Repeat for the other gerotor set. | ||
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_gerotors_-_checking_clearance_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_gerotors_-_checking_clearance_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| Line 188: | Line 189: | ||
| ===== Inspect the Seals and O-rings ===== | ===== Inspect the Seals and O-rings ===== | ||
| - | |||
| It's never a bad idea to replace seals and O-rings every time you go into the oil pump. \\ | It's never a bad idea to replace seals and O-rings every time you go into the oil pump. \\ | ||
| If they still hold tight enough and aren't damaged or compromised, they can be reused. \\ | If they still hold tight enough and aren't damaged or compromised, they can be reused. \\ | ||
| Line 209: | Line 209: | ||
| (R) below, the check valve was stuck open with metal debris. \\ | (R) below, the check valve was stuck open with metal debris. \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_drawing_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_check_valve_by_screwloose.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Screwloose of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1979566)) \\ | + | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_drawing_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_check_valve_by_screwloose.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Screwloose of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/184257-oil-pump-porn?t=1979566)) \\ |
| ===== Inspect the spring washer ===== | ===== Inspect the spring washer ===== | ||
| - | |||
| The spring resides between the separator plates (between the feed and scavenge gerotors) and is supposed to keep pressure against both plates. \\ | The spring resides between the separator plates (between the feed and scavenge gerotors) and is supposed to keep pressure against both plates. \\ | ||
| The inner plate stops at the housing bore "shelf" and doesn't push against the return gerotors. \\ | The inner plate stops at the housing bore "shelf" and doesn't push against the return gerotors. \\ | ||
