Differences
This shows you the differences between two versions of the page.
| Both sides previous revision Previous revision Next revision | Previous revision | ||
|
techtalk:ih:oil03p [2021/11/10 22:22] hippysmack [Inspect the gearshaft and bushings for damage or wear] |
techtalk:ih:oil03p [2024/01/01 20:03] (current) hippysmack |
||
|---|---|---|---|
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
| [[:techtalk:menu|{{ :techtalk:gototechnicalmenu.jpg|}}]] | [[:techtalk:menu|{{ :techtalk:gototechnicalmenu.jpg|}}]] | ||
| ====== IH: Oiling & Lubrication - Sub-03P ====== | ====== IH: Oiling & Lubrication - Sub-03P ====== | ||
| - | ====== 77-85 Oil Pump Inspection and Diagnostics ====== | + | ====== 77-85 Oil Pump Inspection ====== |
| - | \\ | + | |
| - | ====== Diagnosing Problems with the Oil Pump ====== | + | |
| - | Below are some general wear issues as well as secondary issues that may affect the operation of the oil pump. \\ | + | |
| - | General wear is a given as all moving parts will eventually show an amount of wear. \\ | + | |
| - | Secondary damage or problems are sometimes not thought of and consist of other parts of or in the motor that may end up damaging the oil pump. \\ | + | |
| - | **Note: Any time there is a question about the oiling system, FIRST MAKE SURE THERE IS OIL RETURNING TO THE OIL TANK**. \\ | + | |
| - | If there is no oil returning, do not run the engine any longer until you've discovered why that is. \\ | + | |
| - | Seeing oil returning to the tank is usually a good thing. It verifies that the return side of the pump is working. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1974975&page=13)) \\ | + | |
| - | (which verifies the drive gear that drives the shaft that drives both pumps is working) \\ | + | |
| - | On the old gear pumps, it is a pretty good indicator that oil is coming out, so oil must be going in. \\ | + | |
| - | But on the later gerotor pumps, 1977 onwards and with that big seal between the two halves of the pump, it ain't necessarily so. \\ | + | |
| - | If the seal between the supply and return pumps is leaking, the return pump is in effect sucking straight from the oil tank, \\ | + | |
| - | Via the supply pump and leaky seal and is not picking up any air from the sump. Return flow will look fantastic. \\ | + | |
| - | (better than on a properly functioning oil pump in fact!) \\ | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | + | ||
| - | * **Possible causes of low or no oil to the motor or oil tank (discussing the oil pump only)**: | + | |
| - | * **Cracked gerotors or too much clearance between the inner and outer gerotors will lower outlet pressure / oil flow to the motor**. \\ The gerotors work by picking up oil from the inlet cavity and moving that oil to the outlet cavity. \\ As the gerotors turn, previous oil deposited in the outlet cavity is pressured to keep moving the next time the outlet cavity is filled on rotation. \\ If there is a crack in a gerotor or a wide clearance between inner and outer gerotors, pressure will be forced into these areas instead. \\ The crack may open up under pressure and let the oil out also. \\ Basically you lose some pressure on the outlet side as some oil is simply being transferred from the outlet side back to the inlet side of the pump. | + | |
| - | * **An out of round gerotor bore in the housing or cover can reduce oil pressure**. \\ This equates to too large of clearance around the gerotor OD lessening the hydraulic seal. \\ This can be caused by the separator plates and/or gerotors getting sideways in their bores and wearing the surrounding aluminum. | + | |
| - | * **Air leakage into the pump can result in low oil pressure**. \\ If oil can leak out, air can leak in. Just as the oil return in the tank can be seen in spurts, the feed side also comes in spurts. \\ So there is a small instance of high and low pressure coming from the feed gerotors to outlet pressure. \\ This can equate to a push / pull situation inside the oil pump (both having their own pressure cycles). \\ So the pump can leak oil out of cracks and a quick cycle of vacuum (or reverse pressure) can pull in air from the outside into the pump. | + | |
| - | * **Loose hose clamps at the oil pump and/or oil tank feed hose fittings or split hoses can create air leaks**. \\ If using crimped hose connectors, check them to make sure they are tight. If using worm drive hose clamps, make sure they are tight. \\ Also make sure they haven't been tightened too much (which can cut into the hose under the clamp). \\ This will prevent air leakage into the system which could cause loss of oil pressure due to an airlock in the oil pump. \\ Also periodically check all hoses for rot. | + | |
| - | * **Cracks in the pump cover (big or small) at the area of the oil pressure switch are also a source for air intake**. \\ When installing the oil pressure switch, make sure you don't tighten it too much. \\ 5-7 ft/lb (or hand tight plus a nudge) is all it takes to tighten the pressure switch. \\ Much more than that will simply crack the aluminum around the threads. \\ [[techtalk:ih:oil01#oil_pressure_switch|Click Here]] to read more about the oil pressure switch in the Sportsterpedia. | + | |
| - | * **The oil pump has to be primed or it will not pump oil**. \\ If you've recently removed the oil pump or feed hose (drained the oil from), air will be present instead. \\ It takes a hydraulic seal around the gerotors to create oil flow/pressure. \\ There have been several reports of work done on the oil pump or an oil pump swap in where no oil flow was noticed during the first ride afterward. \\ Any time the oiling system is worked on, make sure to first check that there is return oil coming back into the oil tank. \\ (especially before risking a no oiling condition on the road) \\ Once the oil pump is initially primed, it should stay primed until such time the pump or feed hose is later removed. | + | |
| - | * **Sheared pin on the gearshaft that turns the gerotors**: \\ There are two solid pins (1 for feed side, 1 for return side) on the gearshaft that are responsible for turning the gerotors. \\ Either pin can shear from wear or from a sudden jolt on the oil pump in operation. \\ If on return side, the return gerotors stop turning and oil backs up in the sump (wet sumping to follow). \\ Most if not all the oil in the tank will be pumped into the motor but you'll get no return to the tank. \\ If on the feed side, the oil light should come on (everybody SHOULD have one) to let you know oil is not feeding the motor. \\ The oil tank will stay full with no oil moving about. \\ If both pins shear at the same time.... you've probably already discovered more problems at that point. | + | |
| - | * If the oil lines are ran incorrect, this could stop the oil flow to the motor. | + | |
| - | * If the oil pump check valve is blocked or seized in the closed position, you'll get no oil to the motor. | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | * **General Wear / Damage Issues**: (things to keep in the back of your head when dealing with oiling issues) | + | |
| - | * **Gerotors can crack but still work to a point**. \\ That point may be where it finally wears out the pump housing to gerotor OD clearance thus delivering less oil to the motor. \\ There is no spec for gerotor to housing clearance. \\ But even hairline cracks in a gerotor will allow it to expand when hot. \\ This will eat away at the housing bore, heat up the pump and internals causing damage to other pump parts as well. \\ Cracked gerotors will also produce less oil pressure. | + | |
| - | * **Gearshaft pins can shear off, stopping either the feed side or return side or even both from turning**. \\ The solid pins in the side of the gearshaft are responsible for turning the gerotors. \\ The pins will wear and sometimes they will shear off. Each gerotor set has it's own pin. \\ So it's possible for the pin on the return side to shear with the pin on the feed side staying in tact or vice-versa. \\ So you could have feed oil to the motor but no oil return to the tank or vice-versa. \\ Always check for oil returning to the tank when diagnosing any suspected oiling issues (or any time after checking the oil for that matter). \\ Never check oil level without the motor being up to operating temp. \\ So before you shut the motor down to check the oil, have a look in the tank to verify that oil is returning. | + | |
| - | * **The roll pin in the oil pump housing can shear or pull out**. \\ This may be due to foreign matter in the feed or return cavities. \\ The feed gerotors are already under pressure due to the spring washer design alone. \\ Any foreign objects that enter the pump can increase the pressure against the outer plate. \\ From the return side, it can push the inner plate toward the feed side. From the feed side, it'll create more pressure on the feed side only. \\ If the extra pressure is enough to grab and spin the plate hard enough, that could be enough to knock the pin out of it's hole in the housing. \\ If the roll pin comes out, it will cause damage to the oil pump. \\ If it gets lodged between the inner and outer gerotors, it'll most likely crack the outer piece (weaker of the two pieces). \\ If it gets under the feed gerotors, it'll get dragged across the gerotor surface in the cover. \\ This will end up in scratches on the machined surface and lower oil pressure from the pump due to the scratches. \\ With the roll pin out, the outer plate under pressure can spin and wallow out the feed bore in the housing around the plate. | + | |
| - | + | ||
| - | + | ||
| - | ====== Oil Pump Inspection ====== | + | |
| With the replacement of the gear driven oil pump by the new gerotor style pump; \\ HD issued a recommendation to dealers regarding servicing of the new style oil pumps. ((HD Service Bulletin #M-711 dated June 3, 1977)) \\ Zero gerotor (gear) side clearance must be maintained by the flat spring between the upper and lower separator plates for adequate oil pressure. \\ For the spring to function properly, the upper face of the lower feed gerotors must extend slightly above the cover to prevent any side clearance. \\ (which would allow oil to get past the gerotors and reduce oil pressure) \\ If you have reduced oil, no oil pressure (oil light comes on or stays on) or otherwise need to disassemble the oil pump for any reason, \\ The gerotors and their corresponding operating surface in the housing and the cover should be checked and serviced accordingly. | With the replacement of the gear driven oil pump by the new gerotor style pump; \\ HD issued a recommendation to dealers regarding servicing of the new style oil pumps. ((HD Service Bulletin #M-711 dated June 3, 1977)) \\ Zero gerotor (gear) side clearance must be maintained by the flat spring between the upper and lower separator plates for adequate oil pressure. \\ For the spring to function properly, the upper face of the lower feed gerotors must extend slightly above the cover to prevent any side clearance. \\ (which would allow oil to get past the gerotors and reduce oil pressure) \\ If you have reduced oil, no oil pressure (oil light comes on or stays on) or otherwise need to disassemble the oil pump for any reason, \\ The gerotors and their corresponding operating surface in the housing and the cover should be checked and serviced accordingly. | ||
| Line 46: | Line 12: | ||
| While removing each part starting from the cover, make note of the color of the oil, any grit or metal particles and what color they are. \\ | While removing each part starting from the cover, make note of the color of the oil, any grit or metal particles and what color they are. \\ | ||
| + | * What color debris or glitter came from where? | ||
| + | * Yellow or gold (brass/bronze) colored particles/grit: \\ Wrist pin bushings, flywheel thrust washers, rocker arm bushings and cam cover bushings. \\ Non - metallic (can't pick up with a magnet). | ||
| + | * Silver (aluminum) colored particles/grit: \\ Engine case, pistons, oil pump. \\ Non - metallic (can't pick up with a magnet). | ||
| + | * Silver (metal) colored particles/grit: \\ General to excessive metal to metal wear from motor, oil pump drive gear teeth, \\ Broken bearings, races, rods, hardfacing off the rollers and crank pin, crankshaft failure, cam spacer washers, \\ Potentially anything metal from the motor or oil pump. \\ Metallic - (can pick up with magnet). | ||
| + | * Note the size and texture of particles/debris found in the oil pump: \\ Aluminum or metal particles from wear or damage, goopy mush from gasket sealers, colored chips from a recent paint job, gasket material, rags or other. | ||
| + | * Which side of the pump is it in, feed or return?: \\ Debris in the return side came out of the motor into the pump. \\ Debris in the feed side came from the oil tank (which most likely came from the motor to the oil tank). \\ For long term diagnosis, this may not find a smoking gun problem. \\ But in cases of sudden failure, it may be an important clue as in where to start looking for problems. | ||
| * Silicone should not be used anywhere on a Sportster motor. \\ If so, you may find pieces of it in the oil pump or in the small orifics and oil galleys within the motor. \\ The push / pull of crankcase pressure can implode gaskets and especially sealants like silicone. \\ This will stop up the oil paths in the motor and if caught early enough, can be flushed out before catastrophic damage happens. | * Silicone should not be used anywhere on a Sportster motor. \\ If so, you may find pieces of it in the oil pump or in the small orifics and oil galleys within the motor. \\ The push / pull of crankcase pressure can implode gaskets and especially sealants like silicone. \\ This will stop up the oil paths in the motor and if caught early enough, can be flushed out before catastrophic damage happens. | ||
| - | * Visually inspect the inside of the check valve to make sure the little disc up inside it is fully closed. \\ Loose metal particles can get stuck between the disc and the valve body keeping the disc from closing. \\ If you find metal debris in the check valve, there may also be metal that made it's way past the check into the motor. | ||
| - | |Silicone 'gummy bear' sheet found in the feed side|Oil check valve stuck open with metal debris ((photo by Screwloose of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1979566))| | + | |Silicone 'gummy bear' sheet found in the feed side ((photo by (-_-) of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/efi-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2007-and-up/198113-help-me-figure-out-weird-engine-braking/page3?t=2074835&page=3))| |
| - | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pump_damage_3_by_-_-_-_annotated.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by (-_-) of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074835&page=3))|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_check_valve_by_screwloose.jpg?direct&300|}}| | + | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pump_damage_3_by_-_-_-_annotated.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
| === Inspect the ridge in the cover === | === Inspect the ridge in the cover === | ||
| Line 59: | Line 30: | ||
| === Inspect the gerotor surface for flatness in the oil pump cover and housing === | === Inspect the gerotor surface for flatness in the oil pump cover and housing === | ||
| - | |||
| An oil pump cover found with an uneven gerotor surface should be removed. \\ | An oil pump cover found with an uneven gerotor surface should be removed. \\ | ||
| If the gerotor widths measure equally but they are not equal in height when placed into the cover, the cover surface is not flat. \\ | If the gerotor widths measure equally but they are not equal in height when placed into the cover, the cover surface is not flat. \\ | ||
| Line 69: | Line 39: | ||
| Many (most perhaps) used oil pumps have scratches on both the gerotors and pump surfaces that the gerotors ride on. \\ | Many (most perhaps) used oil pumps have scratches on both the gerotors and pump surfaces that the gerotors ride on. \\ | ||
| - | But, there is one certain spot that seems to be scratched more times than others. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071153&page=6)) \\ | + | But, there is one certain spot that seems to be scratched more times than others. ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/194881-let-s-study-the-77-85-oil-pump-parts-and-changes-and-when/page6?t=2071153&page=6)) \\ |
| It's on the larger of the two pads in the pump body and the cover seem to usually have more wear. \\ | It's on the larger of the two pads in the pump body and the cover seem to usually have more wear. \\ | ||
| Sometimes, the small pad is scratched or damaged also but not always. \\ | Sometimes, the small pad is scratched or damaged also but not always. \\ | ||
| Line 97: | Line 67: | ||
| They'll both flow faster when hot. \\ | They'll both flow faster when hot. \\ | ||
| - | | Gerotor rotation (cover shown) ((photos by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2071153&page=6)) || | + | | Gerotor rotation (cover shown) ((photos by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/194881-let-s-study-the-77-85-oil-pump-parts-and-changes-and-when/page6?t=2071153&page=6)) || |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_9a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_10a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_9a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_cover_10a_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| Line 116: | Line 86: | ||
| * Elongated scratches in these pads allow a constant amount of generated pressure on the outlet side to squirt back to the inlet side of the pump. \\ This will lower the pressure to the extent of how deep the scratches are. \\ Deep scratches allow more oil pressure or oil flow to recirculate from the outlet back to the inlet within the oil pump. \\ This makes for less oil gauge pressure on the feed side as well as less oil flow to the motor. \\ This makes for less oil flow back to the oil tank. | * Elongated scratches in these pads allow a constant amount of generated pressure on the outlet side to squirt back to the inlet side of the pump. \\ This will lower the pressure to the extent of how deep the scratches are. \\ Deep scratches allow more oil pressure or oil flow to recirculate from the outlet back to the inlet within the oil pump. \\ This makes for less oil gauge pressure on the feed side as well as less oil flow to the motor. \\ This makes for less oil flow back to the oil tank. | ||
| * How many scratches or how deep the scratches need to be before the pump housing/cover needs to be replaced has never been publicized by the MoCo. \\ They apparently didn't want to get into the weeds... as I've done here. | * How many scratches or how deep the scratches need to be before the pump housing/cover needs to be replaced has never been publicized by the MoCo. \\ They apparently didn't want to get into the weeds... as I've done here. | ||
| - | * Backpressure is greater on the feed side than it is the return side. \\ The feed path from the pump has many turns and restrictions that build pressure. \\ Since oil is not compressible, it can't absorb any of that pressure. \\ So excess pressure is sent backwards from the restrictions. \\ This is how oil can recirculate form the feed outlet back to the feed inlet through out of service clearances and oil pump pad wear. \\ When the pressure is reverted backward, it runs back to the inlet side of the pump. \\ If backpressure is allowed to constantly run back to the inlet side, it will send oil back up the feed hose. \\ If you normally would have say 4psi at idle on the pump outlet, you'd now have 2 psi on the outlet and 2 psi going back to the inlet. | + | * Backpressure is greater on the feed side than it is the return side. \\ The feed path from the pump has many turns and restrictions that build pressure. \\ Since oil is not compressible, it can't absorb any of that pressure. \\ So excess pressure is sent backwards from the restrictions. \\ This is how oil can recirculate from the feed outlet back to the feed inlet through out of service clearances and oil pump pad wear. \\ When the pressure is reverted backward, it runs back to the inlet side of the pump. \\ If backpressure is allowed to constantly run back to the inlet side, it will send oil back up the feed hose. \\ If you normally would have say 4psi at idle on the pump outlet, you'd now have 2 psi on the outlet and 2 psi going back to the inlet. |
| * Consequently, more oil will recirculate thru the feed side than the return side if both big pads have identical width and depth elongated scratches. \\ The backpressure from the feed side would push more oil faster under the gerotors than the return side with less backpressure. \\ If the oil tank vent line is stopped up, backpressure on the return side of the pump will be greater and send more oil under the gerotors back to the sump. | * Consequently, more oil will recirculate thru the feed side than the return side if both big pads have identical width and depth elongated scratches. \\ The backpressure from the feed side would push more oil faster under the gerotors than the return side with less backpressure. \\ If the oil tank vent line is stopped up, backpressure on the return side of the pump will be greater and send more oil under the gerotors back to the sump. | ||
| * I'd guesstimate that there are a whole lot of Sportsters on the road with motors having gerotor pumps with various degrees of scratches. \\ The fact that there hasn't been a lot of talk on degrees of scratches in the oil pump says that most probably don't worry too much about them. \\ But then, you end up seeing that one complete teardown due to an oil pump problem and you get to wondering yourself. | * I'd guesstimate that there are a whole lot of Sportsters on the road with motors having gerotor pumps with various degrees of scratches. \\ The fact that there hasn't been a lot of talk on degrees of scratches in the oil pump says that most probably don't worry too much about them. \\ But then, you end up seeing that one complete teardown due to an oil pump problem and you get to wondering yourself. | ||
| Line 127: | Line 97: | ||
| Any marked reusable should still be pressure tested and observed if you'll be using them. \\ | Any marked reusable should still be pressure tested and observed if you'll be using them. \\ | ||
| - | |Metal chunk lodged in return inlet. \\ The one medium scratch on big pad is some concern. \\ Small amount of recirculation oil internally. \\ Metal debris lessens amount of pickup oil at once. \\ May be reusable with further observation ((photo by sc72 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1717592&page=15))|Deep and wide channel ripped into big pad. \\ Light scratches across small pad. \\ High possibility of recirculating oil internally, \\ (feed outlet to feed inlet thru big pad scratch) \\ Owner said oil was not returning. \\ Should be replaced. ((photo by Rolli of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5877838&highlight=oil+pump#post5877838))|A gearshaft pin sheared and got into the return cavity. \\ It broke out a corner of the big pad. \\ The remaining flat surface of pad is undamaged. \\ Should be reusable with further observation. ((photo by DirtyCory of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1297584&page=2))| | + | |Metal chunk lodged in return inlet. \\ The one medium scratch on big pad is some concern. \\ Small amount of recirculation oil internally. \\ Metal debris lessens amount of pickup oil at once. \\ May be reusable with further observation ((photo by sc72 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/160106-where-to-go-from-here/page15?t=1717592&page=15))|Deep and wide channel ripped into big pad. \\ Light scratches across small pad. \\ High possibility of recirculating oil internally, \\ (feed outlet to feed inlet thru big pad scratch) \\ Owner said oil was not returning. \\ Should be replaced. ((photo by Rolli of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/201663-1983-ironhead-oil-not-returning?highlight=oil+pump#post4475667))|A gearshaft pin sheared and got into the return cavity. \\ It broke out a corner of the big pad. \\ The remaining flat surface of pad is undamaged. \\ Should be reusable with further observation. ((photo by DirtyCory of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/127032-getting-this-78-back-to-the-way-it-should-be/page2?t=1297584&page=2))| |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983_sportster_oil_pump_body_by_sc72.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_oil_pump_scratches_by_rolli.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1978_oil_pump_body_by_dirtycory.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983_sportster_oil_pump_body_by_sc72.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_oil_pump_scratches_by_rolli.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:1978_oil_pump_body_by_dirtycory.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| === Check for cracks in the housing and cover === | === Check for cracks in the housing and cover === | ||
| - | |||
| The cover below was cracked at the oil pressure switch end from tightening the pressure switch too tight. \\ | The cover below was cracked at the oil pressure switch end from tightening the pressure switch too tight. \\ | ||
| The crack was welded over and a Dremil tool was used to reshape the cover. \\ | The crack was welded over and a Dremil tool was used to reshape the cover. \\ | ||
| Due to warpage during welding, the threads need to be chased with a tap to straighten them back out. \\ | Due to warpage during welding, the threads need to be chased with a tap to straighten them back out. \\ | ||
| - | | Repair on oil pump cover ((photos by acb2 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=554323)) || Oil Switch Torque ((drawing by Hippysmack)) | | + | | Repair on oil pump cover ((photos by acb2 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/77330-oil-pump-1977-up?t=554323)) || Oil Switch Torque ((drawing by Hippysmack)) | |
| |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_1_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_2_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pressure_switch_threads_by_hippysmack.png?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_1_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ih:oil:cracked_oil_pump_cover_2_by_acb2.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pressure_switch_threads_by_hippysmack.png?direct&300|}}| | ||
| === Inspect the Housing Roll Pin === | === Inspect the Housing Roll Pin === | ||
| - | |||
| The roll pin is installed into the "shelf" between the housing bores and it normally shouldn't see any shear force. \\ | The roll pin is installed into the "shelf" between the housing bores and it normally shouldn't see any shear force. \\ | ||
| All internals depend on the strength of the solid pins, and the drive gear. \\ | All internals depend on the strength of the solid pins, and the drive gear. \\ | ||
| Line 153: | Line 121: | ||
| ===== Inspect the gearshaft and bushings for damage or wear ===== | ===== Inspect the gearshaft and bushings for damage or wear ===== | ||
| - | * Check the gear teeth for pits, breakage or wear. Replace the gearshaft as necessary. | + | * Check the gearshaft teeth for pits, breakage or wear. Replace the gearshaft as necessary. \\ Also do not forget to check the teeth on the oil pump drive gear on the pinion shaft. \\ If the teeth on it are thin, replace the drive gear. \\ Pinion shaft runout can wear the drive gear teeth down thin enough to break off and float with the oil. |
| * Clean areas where the shaft sits in a bushing with steel wool if needed. \\ If it's not possible to smooth the areas out, replace the shaft. | * Clean areas where the shaft sits in a bushing with steel wool if needed. \\ If it's not possible to smooth the areas out, replace the shaft. | ||
| * Inspect the gearshaft bushings both the housing and the cover. \\ Look for scoring, excess wear and noticeable damage. Replace as necessary. | * Inspect the gearshaft bushings both the housing and the cover. \\ Look for scoring, excess wear and noticeable damage. Replace as necessary. | ||
| Line 168: | Line 136: | ||
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_bushing-_checking_clearance_pic1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_bushing-_checking_clearance_pic2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_bushing-_checking_clearance_pic3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_bushing-_checking_clearance_pic1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_bushing-_checking_clearance_pic2_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_bushing-_checking_clearance_pic3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ | ||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== Gerotor shear pins ===== | ||
| * The solid shear pins in the gearshaft may be different lengths and/or different OD. \\ There is no spec for the pins in the service manual. | * The solid shear pins in the gearshaft may be different lengths and/or different OD. \\ There is no spec for the pins in the service manual. | ||
| * The pins main function is to turn the gerotors. \\ Pin construction is designed to be the weak point and let go if the pump gets jammed with solid objects. \\ (like bits of metal etc in the gears, or if the oil pump bushings seize etc). | * The pins main function is to turn the gerotors. \\ Pin construction is designed to be the weak point and let go if the pump gets jammed with solid objects. \\ (like bits of metal etc in the gears, or if the oil pump bushings seize etc). | ||
| - | * Just putting a new shear pin back in without fully rebuilding the pump and checking for jamming or seizing is begging for the same thing to happen again. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1232889)) | + | * Just putting a new shear pin back in without fully rebuilding the pump and checking for jamming or seizing is begging for the same thing to happen again. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/49875-heeeeeeeeeeelpppp-meeeeeeeeee-motor-dying-in-4th-gear/page2#post1049264)) |
| * The gerotors are much taller than the pin thickness. | * The gerotors are much taller than the pin thickness. | ||
| * So the height of the slot allows a fudge factor on quick throttle blips and the gerotors won't be affected. \\ The gearshaft will rise some on higher throttle and there is built in "up and down" clearance in the pump to allow this. \\ | * So the height of the slot allows a fudge factor on quick throttle blips and the gerotors won't be affected. \\ The gearshaft will rise some on higher throttle and there is built in "up and down" clearance in the pump to allow this. \\ | ||
| - | * The pins are not pressed into the gearshaft and the holes in the gearshaft for the pins are different depths on several used gearshafts inspected. \\ Knowing this, it makes sense to be aware that the holes in the shaft can wallow out or the loose fit of the pins can wear the pins faster. \\ You can buy a handful of new pins only to find they are all different dims as well. \\ If you find real slop in the pin fit to the pins, either replace the pins and/or the gearshaft. \\ Do not buy hardened pins as that will defeat the purpose of the "shear pin" design. If the pins only protrude slightly into the gerotor slots, use longer pins. \\ | + | * The pins are not pressed into the gearshaft and the holes in the gearshaft for the pins are different depths on several used gearshafts inspected. \\ Knowing this, it makes sense to be aware that the holes in the shaft can wallow out or the loose fit of the pins can wear the pins faster. \\ You can buy a handful of new pins only to find they are all different dims as well. \\ If you find real slop in the pin fit to the gearshaft, either replace the pins and/or the gearshaft. \\ Do not buy hardened pins as that will defeat the purpose of the "shear pin" design. If the pins only protrude slightly into the gerotor slots, use longer pins. \\ |
| The pics below are used parts but show the pin locations and how they look installed with a gerotor on the shaft. \\ | The pics below are used parts but show the pin locations and how they look installed with a gerotor on the shaft. \\ | ||
| Line 180: | Line 150: | ||
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_gearshaft_pins_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_gearshaft_pin_location_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_gearshaft_pin_location_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_gearshaft_pins_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_gearshaft_pin_location_3_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_gearshaft_pin_location_5_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} \\ | ||
| - | |||
| ===== Inspect both gerotor sets ===== | ===== Inspect both gerotor sets ===== | ||
| - | Clean both gerotor sets with solvent, brake cleaner et., and inspect them closely for cracks. \\ | + | Clean both gerotor sets with solvent, brake cleaner etc. \\ |
| + | \\ | ||
| + | **Inspect inner and outer pieces of both gerotor sets closely for cracks (most cracks are going to run vertically)**. \\ | ||
| It may be hard to see cracks from a distance or when the gerotors are oily / dirty. \\ | It may be hard to see cracks from a distance or when the gerotors are oily / dirty. \\ | ||
| - | The outer return piece below was cracked but not all the way through. Being cracked at all is still a problem (could result in lower oil pressure). \\ | + | Cracks can happen when debris gets pinned between the inner and outer gerotors. \\ |
| - | Replace any gerotors with damaged teeth, nicks or cracks. The problem will only get worse. \\ | + | As they spin around and pinch something between them, the offending item tries to bind or lock up the gerotors while the geasrshaft still wants to spin. \\ |
| - | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983l-1985_outer_gerotor-_cracked_by_attaxic.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Attaxic of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2078758&page=4)) \\ | + | Technically, the solid shear pins on the gearshaft should also be checked for damage if you find a cracked gerotor. \\ |
| + | The pins should shear before that much pressure is put on the gerotors. \\ | ||
| + | If aftermarket hardened pins are used instead of OEM pins, they could hold up and not shear which transfers gearshaft energy to the gerotors instead. \\ | ||
| + | This is another example of parts designed to fail before others down line do. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | (L - below) The outer return piece below was cracked but not all the way through. Being cracked at all is still a problem (could result in lower oil pressure). \\ | ||
| + | Replace any gerotors with damaged teeth, nicks or cracks. \\ | ||
| + | The problem will only get worse (gerotor will break into pieces) and oil pressure will be lower until the gerotor breaks. \\ | ||
| + | (R - below) The inner feed gerotor broke into 4 separate pieces starting from the slot in the gerotor where the gearshaft pin catches it. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1983l-1985_outer_gerotor-_cracked_by_attaxic.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Attaxic of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/201663-1983-ironhead-oil-not-returning/page4?t=2078758&page=4)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_inner_feed_gerotor_broken_by_freewheeler.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Freewheeler of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/174337-homebrew-ironhead-sheared-oil-pump-pin?threadid=1869407)) \\ | ||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| **Check inner to outer gerotor clearance on each gerotor set**. \\ | **Check inner to outer gerotor clearance on each gerotor set**. \\ | ||
| Each gerotor set is made with an inner and outer piece. Mesh the two pieces together (as they normally would sit in operation). \\ | Each gerotor set is made with an inner and outer piece. Mesh the two pieces together (as they normally would sit in operation). \\ | ||
| + | This clearance has a direct relationship to oil pump flow and oil pressure. \\ | ||
| + | The wider the clearance the more the gerotors lose their ability to hold enough pressure to the outlet cavity. \\ | ||
| + | They also the ability to transfer oil from the feed cavity back to the inlet cavity and recirculate oil within the oil pump. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| * Arrange so there is 1 inner tooth facing the center of the wide outer radius. \\ Use a feeler gauge between the inner tooth and outer radius there for a maximum of .004" clearance between them. \\ If the clearance is larger than .004", replace the affected gearotor set. Repeat for the other gerotor set. | * Arrange so there is 1 inner tooth facing the center of the wide outer radius. \\ Use a feeler gauge between the inner tooth and outer radius there for a maximum of .004" clearance between them. \\ If the clearance is larger than .004", replace the affected gearotor set. Repeat for the other gerotor set. | ||
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_gerotors_-_checking_clearance_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_gerotors_-_checking_clearance_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| \\ | \\ | ||
| - | * Measure the height of each inner and outer gerotor set. \\ Each inner and outer piece (feed side) should be the same height, each inner and outer (return side) should be the same height. \\ Replace gerotors as a set respectively if the inner and outer pieces are not the same height. \\ A micrometer will reveal tighter measurements rather than the caliper used below. \\ However, there are so many small variances in these pumps that less than .001" increments isn't going to be the hill to trash your pump on. \\ | + | * **Measure the height of each inner and outer gerotor set**. \\ Each inner and outer piece (feed side) should be the same height, each inner and outer (return side) should be the same height. \\ Replace gerotors as a set respectively if the inner and outer pieces are not the same height. \\ A micrometer will reveal tighter measurements rather than the caliper used below. \\ However, there are so many small variances in these pumps that less than .001" increments isn't going to be the hill to trash your pump on. \\ |
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_gerotor-_measuring_feed_set_height_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_gerotor-_measuring_return_set_height_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_gerotor-_measuring_feed_set_height_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_gerotor-_measuring_return_set_height_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| ===== Inspect the Seals and O-rings ===== | ===== Inspect the Seals and O-rings ===== | ||
| It's never a bad idea to replace seals and O-rings every time you go into the oil pump. \\ | It's never a bad idea to replace seals and O-rings every time you go into the oil pump. \\ | ||
| Line 212: | Line 199: | ||
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_check_valve_assembly_pic_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:12036_and_12036a_outer_plate_seals.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_check_valve_assembly_pic_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:12036_and_12036a_outer_plate_seals.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| ===== Inspect the oil check valve ===== | ===== Inspect the oil check valve ===== | ||
| + | |||
| [[techtalk:ih:oil01#oil_pump_check_valve|Click Here]] to read more about the oil pump check valve in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | [[techtalk:ih:oil01#oil_pump_check_valve|Click Here]] to read more about the oil pump check valve in the Sportsterpedia. \\ | ||
| * Make sure it's not clogged and the internal spring closes the cup / disc properly. \\ The spring loaded cup inside the valve should be free to move and should return to it's closed, seated position. \\ It the check valve is damaged in any way, the complete valve assembly should be replaced. \\ There are no replaceable parts to it. | * Make sure it's not clogged and the internal spring closes the cup / disc properly. \\ The spring loaded cup inside the valve should be free to move and should return to it's closed, seated position. \\ It the check valve is damaged in any way, the complete valve assembly should be replaced. \\ There are no replaceable parts to it. | ||
| + | * Loose metal particles can get stuck between the disc and the valve body keeping the disc from closing. \\ If you find metal debris in the check valve, there may also be metal that made it's way past the check into the motor. | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_drawing_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | + | (R) below, the check valve was stuck open with metal debris. \\ |
| - | ===== Inspect the spring washer ===== | + | |
| + | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_1_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_check_valve_drawing_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-1985_oil_pump_check_valve_by_screwloose.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Screwloose of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/184257-oil-pump-porn?t=1979566)) \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== Inspect the spring washer ===== | ||
| The spring resides between the separator plates (between the feed and scavenge gerotors) and is supposed to keep pressure against both plates. \\ | The spring resides between the separator plates (between the feed and scavenge gerotors) and is supposed to keep pressure against both plates. \\ | ||
| The inner plate stops at the housing bore "shelf" and doesn't push against the return gerotors. \\ | The inner plate stops at the housing bore "shelf" and doesn't push against the return gerotors. \\ | ||
