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techtalk:ih:oil03p [2024/01/01 20:03] hippysmack |
techtalk:ih:oil03p [2024/05/07 21:22] hippysmack [Inspect the oil pump cover and body] |
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| === Inspect the Housing Roll Pin === | === Inspect the Housing Roll Pin === | ||
| The roll pin is installed into the "shelf" between the housing bores and it normally shouldn't see any shear force. \\ | The roll pin is installed into the "shelf" between the housing bores and it normally shouldn't see any shear force. \\ | ||
| - | All internals depend on the strength of the solid pins, and the drive gear. \\ | + | A roll pin is a spring, that's what keeps it in place. It's not solid because it's NOT supposed to shear. ((kitabel of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/203361-oil-pump-split-pin-removal)) \\ |
| - | The outer separator plate has a slot in it that installs over the roll pin. \\ | + | |
| + | The scavenge gerotor is not quite as tall as the "shelf" where the inner plate sits. \\ | ||
| + | Normally, there is a slight gap between the return gerotor set and the inner plate. Inner plate sits against the shelf, not the return gerotors. \\ | ||
| + | When you button up the pump and the spring washer tightens the turning of the gearshaft, it's tightening against the feed gerotors, not return. \\ | ||
| + | So the return side should be free to move up and down with RPM and float off the plate. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | The separator (divider) plates have a slot on their OD that installs over the roll pin. \\ | ||
| Normally the only force on the roll pin is stationary pressure from the outer plate wanting to turn with the feed gerotor under it. \\ | Normally the only force on the roll pin is stationary pressure from the outer plate wanting to turn with the feed gerotor under it. \\ | ||
| - | However, sudden jolts or back pressure on the pump can strengthen that stationary pressure against the roll pin and either pull it out or shear it off. \\ | + | However, sudden jolts or back pressure on the pump can strengthen that stationary pressure against the roll pin. \\ |
| + | The roll pin in the oil pump housing can be damaged (by the parts in the pump getting in a bind) or by a previous hamfisted pump assembly. \\ | ||
| + | The pin can be punished by the divider plates enough to wallow the hole it's in and/or damaging the hole enough to loosen the pin. \\ | ||
| + | This may be due to foreign matter in the feed or return cavities. \\ | ||
| + | Any foreign objects that enter the pump can increase the pressure against the plates to move. \\ | ||
| + | Or the pin can be damaged from simply trying to remove it. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | The hole in the center of the divider plates is off center. The roll pin locates the plates to the housing and the off centered drive shaft. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Check the roll pin**. \\ | ||
| Give the roll pin a slight tug with needle nose pliers to make sure it is good and pressed in and doesn't want to wiggle. \\ | Give the roll pin a slight tug with needle nose pliers to make sure it is good and pressed in and doesn't want to wiggle. \\ | ||
| If there is any looseness or wiggle, pull it out and replace it now so you don't find it inside the motor later. \\ | If there is any looseness or wiggle, pull it out and replace it now so you don't find it inside the motor later. \\ | ||
| + | There is nothing wrong with the roll pin in this photo. \\ | ||
| {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_body_7_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:77-85_oil_pump_body_7_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Hippysmack)) \\ | ||
| + | \\ | ||
| + | \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | If the roll pin comes out, it will cause damage to the oil pump. If it gets lodged between the inner and outer gerotors, it'll most likely crack the outer piece (weaker of the two pieces). If it gets under the gerotors, it'll get dragged across the gerotor surface in the pump housing or cover. This will end up in scratches on the machined surface and lower oil pressure from the pump due to the scratches. With the roll pin out, the outer plate, under pressure, can spin and wallow out the feed bore in the housing around the plate. \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | **If needed, below are some possible ways to remove the roll pin**. \\ | ||
| + | - You can try a side dike wire cutter and a little electrical freeze spray on the aluminum. | ||
| + | - You could try running a small tap into the roll pin to cut threads for a small screw, then screw the bolt into the center. \\ Once the bolt hits bottom of the hole, it may push the pin up and out or at least loosen the pin. ((Andy Hog of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/203361-oil-pump-split-pin-removal)) | ||
| + | - You may or may not need to cut the buggered part off, but you could try to fill the pin with oil and insert a close fitting punch into the hole. The hit the punch with a hammer. The hammer blow may move the pin upward. ((sungod of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/203361-oil-pump-split-pin-removal)) | ||
| + | - This is tedious but would work, if done properly and with a steady hand. \\ This method may also be used if the existing hole is broken out or the is wallowed to where a new pin would not tighten up to the existing hole. You could carefully cut the old pin flush with a Dremil tool, leave the old pin where it is and install a new pin elsewhere. Note: if you drill a new pin hole you must cut new slots in the 2 plates that the pin locates. ((needspeed of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/203361-oil-pump-split-pin-removal/page2)) You can't rotate the plates into a different position because the hole in the plates that the shaft goes through is not exactly in the middle (off centered). | ||
| + | * First, remove the guts inside and install both divider plates over the old pin to locate them properly. Then drill a small hole (smaller than the pin hole) thru the top plate, thru to the bottom plate and stop when it is dimpled by the drill bit. Remove the plates and finish drilling the second plate. Then use a Dremil tool or file to cut a slot from edge of plate to hole (on ea plate) | ||
| + | * Reinstall both plates and drill thru the new slots in both to make a dimple in the pump housing, remove plates. | ||
| + | * Drill hole in pump housing to depth of new pin (correct bore size for new pin). \\ It's good to have an index drill bit set (especially for smaller bits). Most drill bits will wallow a hole bigger than what it is written on the bit. Start with a slightly smaller bit than (projected installed OD of the pin dia) into the plates and just enough into the housing to make a dot. Then pull it back apart and square up the housing using the same drill bit. Measure it and drill with bigger bit if needed for the pin. If you drill too wide, the pin won't stay. Roll pins are sized by the dia of the hole needed (1/8" roll pin for 1/8" hole) but the pin will measure bigger than that. Just need to make sure the hole doesn't wallow. | ||
| + | * Use a metal cutting blade on a Dremil cutting tool to cut the old pin flush with the "shelf" in the pump housing. Make sure there are no splinters left on the existing pin (needs to be flush to the shelf it sits on) and the shelf has no gouges that would push on the divider plates when installed. | ||
| + | * Blow out the new hole with compressed air, press the new roll pin into the new hole and you're done. | ||
| + | |||
| + | **Generally bad ideas for removing the pin**. | ||
| + | * Vise Grips will most likely slip off the pin and damage it further, but more importantly damage the pump housing. | ||
| + | * Heat will most likely expand the aluminum around the pin, squeezing it harder around the pin. | ||
| + | |||
| + | \\ | ||
| + | **The roll pin below was damaged by trying to remove it**. \\ | ||
| + | It was removed using electrical side cutters by XLF member, billeuze. ((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/203361-oil-pump-split-pin-removal/page2)) \\ | ||
| + | Carefully protect the base and sides of the pump body. \\ | ||
| + | Odd parts were put inside the pump for a nice height for a fulcrum for the side cutters. \\ | ||
| + | I squeezed and pried it out. It took 4 or five pries to walk it all the way out. ((photos by billeuze)\\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_sportster_oil_pump_roll_pin_removal_pic1_by_billeuze.jpg?direct&400|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_sportster_oil_pump_roll_pin_removal_pic2_by_billeuze.jpg?direct&400|}} \\ | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_sportster_oil_pump_roll_pin_removal_pic3_by_billeuze.jpg?direct&400|}} {{:techtalk:ih:oil:1977-e1983_sportster_oil_pump_roll_pin_removal_pic4_by_billeuze.jpg?direct&400|}} \\ | ||
| ===== Inspect the gearshaft and bushings for damage or wear ===== | ===== Inspect the gearshaft and bushings for damage or wear ===== | ||
