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techtalk:evo:oil06 [2020/09/12 07:46] hippysmack [Rocker Box / Gaskets] |
techtalk:evo:oil06 [2024/01/05 19:16] hippysmack |
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| That is not the case with Sporsters. They should NOT leak oil. \\ | That is not the case with Sporsters. They should NOT leak oil. \\ | ||
| - | **What constitutes an oil leak**? ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1918224)) \\ | + | **What constitutes an oil leak**? ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/178459-considering-cork-rocker-gaskets?t=1918224)) \\ |
| * Leak: Liquid oil on the outside of your rocker box, head etc. | * Leak: Liquid oil on the outside of your rocker box, head etc. | ||
| * Weep: An oily residue that traps road dust leading to a damp, dirty build up. | * Weep: An oily residue that traps road dust leading to a damp, dirty build up. | ||
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| See [[techtalk:evo:oil06#crankcase_pressure_problems|Crankcase Pressure Problems]] below. | See [[techtalk:evo:oil06#crankcase_pressure_problems|Crankcase Pressure Problems]] below. | ||
| - | |||
| ====== Do Not Use Silicone In Your Engine ====== | ====== Do Not Use Silicone In Your Engine ====== | ||
| - | |||
| **First and foremost, do not use silicone sealer on any engine, oil pump or related parts or gaskets to stop a leak**. \\ | **First and foremost, do not use silicone sealer on any engine, oil pump or related parts or gaskets to stop a leak**. \\ | ||
| The heat coupled with crankcase pressure pulses can break pieces of it loose and send them through the engine. \\ | The heat coupled with crankcase pressure pulses can break pieces of it loose and send them through the engine. \\ | ||
| Line 48: | Line 46: | ||
| In an instance where used silicone was used to seal the gaskets, pieces of silicone (or sheets) could be sucked in, stretched and broke off into the engine. \\ | In an instance where used silicone was used to seal the gaskets, pieces of silicone (or sheets) could be sucked in, stretched and broke off into the engine. \\ | ||
| This silicone 'gummy bear' sheet was found in the oil pump. \\ | This silicone 'gummy bear' sheet was found in the oil pump. \\ | ||
| - | {{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pump_damage_3_by_-_-_-_annotated.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by (-_-) of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074835&page=3)) \\ | + | {{:techtalk:evo:oil:oil_pump_damage_3_by_-_-_-_annotated.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by (-_-) of the XLFORUM, annotated by Hippysmack https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/efi-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2007-and-up/198113-help-me-figure-out-weird-engine-braking/page3?t=2074835&page=3)) \\ |
| ====== Diagnosing the Origin of External Leaks ====== | ====== Diagnosing the Origin of External Leaks ====== | ||
| - | \\ | + | * **You can put red food coloring in your primary or engine so you can tell if it is engine oil or tranny oil leaking**. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/100269-the-last-oil-leak-on-earth?t=862589)) \\ Just be sure to do an oil change once you've found and fixed the problem. |
| - | + | ||
| - | * **You can put red food coloring in your primary or engine so you can tell if it is engine oil or tranny oil leaking**. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=862589)) \\ Just be sure to do an oil change once you've found and fixed the problem. | + | |
| * **Using powder to detect a leak**: | * **Using powder to detect a leak**: | ||
| - | * Degrease the bike until there's no oil remaining. \\ Then take some Soft n Dri (women's antiperspirant spray), talcum powder etc. and spray it around the rocker gaskets (or other suspected leaking area). ((ReddTigger of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1732579&highlight=rocker+box+inserts)) \\ It will go on clear but when it gets heated will turn to a white powder. Just a light film is all it takes. \\ Whenever it starts leaking it'll show up exactly where the leak is. \\ | + | * Degrease the bike until there's no oil remaining. \\ Then take some Soft n Dri (women's antiperspirant spray), talcum powder etc. and spray it around the rocker gaskets (or other suspected leaking area). ((ReddTigger of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/161350-rocker-covers-leaking-argh?t=1732579&highlight=rocker+box+inserts)) \\ It will go on clear but when it gets heated will turn to a white powder. Just a light film is all it takes. \\ Whenever it starts leaking it'll show up exactly where the leak is. \\ |
| - | * **Clean the engine, then start it and use a bright light to see where the leak is coming from**. ((Bob F of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5774586)) \\ The light should make the liquid oil shine. You may only have to run your scoot for a few seconds to start leak. | + | * **Clean the engine, then start it and use a bright light to see where the leak is coming from**. ((Bob F of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/197800-oil-leak#post4335162)) \\ The light should make the liquid oil shine. You may only have to run your scoot for a few seconds to start leak. |
| * **Leaking with Engine Running (weeping gaskets)**. \\ See also [[techtalk:ref:oil10|Wet Sumping]] in the Sportsterpedia. | * **Leaking with Engine Running (weeping gaskets)**. \\ See also [[techtalk:ref:oil10|Wet Sumping]] in the Sportsterpedia. | ||
| * Weeping cylinder base gaskets: \\ Please do not jump the gun. Clean the area and ride the bike. | * Weeping cylinder base gaskets: \\ Please do not jump the gun. Clean the area and ride the bike. | ||
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| * Running the bike hard shouldn't be an issue. \\ However, running the bike hard compounds the problem if there are any issues listed above. \\ High RPM makes these issues worse. | * Running the bike hard shouldn't be an issue. \\ However, running the bike hard compounds the problem if there are any issues listed above. \\ High RPM makes these issues worse. | ||
| * **Leaking with Engine Shut Off**. \\ See also [[techtalk:ref:oil10#sit_sumpimg|Sit Sumping]] in the Sportsterpedia. | * **Leaking with Engine Shut Off**. \\ See also [[techtalk:ref:oil10#sit_sumpimg|Sit Sumping]] in the Sportsterpedia. | ||
| - | * Clean the area thoroughly (like with rake cleaner and air blow dry). ((Ferrous Head of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5774586)) \\ Let it sit long enough to begin leaking and blow some talcum powder over the area. \\ The talc will stick to the oil and pinpoint the origin. | + | * Clean the area thoroughly (like with rake cleaner and air blow dry). ((Ferrous Head of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/197800-oil-leak#post4335162)) \\ Let it sit long enough to begin leaking and blow some talcum powder over the area. \\ The talc will stick to the oil and pinpoint the origin. |
| - | * Take an old bike tube and cut a piece while retaining the valve stem. ((ezmerf of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5774586)) \\ Use a hose clamp to tighten it over the filler neck on the oil tank. \\ Then put a pound or two of air pressure on it and see if that helps you locate where it's coming from. | + | * Take an old bike tube and cut a piece while retaining the valve stem. ((ezmerf of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/197800-oil-leak#post4335162)) \\ Use a hose clamp to tighten it over the filler neck on the oil tank. \\ Then put a pound or two of air pressure on it and see if that helps you locate where it's coming from. |
| - | |Rocker boxes sprayed with powder antiperspirant to detected oil leaks. ((photos by CitySlicker of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1732579&highlight=rocker+box+inserts&page=2))|| | + | |Rocker boxes sprayed with powder antiperspirant to detected oil leaks. ((photos by CitySlicker of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-motor-top-end/161350-rocker-covers-leaking-argh/page2?t=1732579&highlight=rocker+box+inserts&page=2))|| |
| |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:diagnosing_oil_leak_1_by_cityslicker.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:diagnosing_oil_leak_2_by_cityslicker.jpg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:diagnosing_oil_leak_1_by_cityslicker.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:diagnosing_oil_leak_2_by_cityslicker.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| Line 183: | Line 179: | ||
| Notice that the other 3 are also showing signs of implosion in the center of the fiber washers. \\ | Notice that the other 3 are also showing signs of implosion in the center of the fiber washers. \\ | ||
| The fiber will still seal until the whole OD is curled up or the thickness gets small enough to loosen the torque on the bolt. \\ | The fiber will still seal until the whole OD is curled up or the thickness gets small enough to loosen the torque on the bolt. \\ | ||
| + | This may be one example of how rocker box bolts get loose by themselves. \\ | ||
| - | | Damaged lower rocker box gasket. ((photo by 4-pac of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254258)) \\ (caused by sandwiching sensor wire with gasket) | Potential oil leak areas of rocker boxes. ((photo by dagger rider of the XLFORUM )) |Fiber washers will crush in the center and leak \\ around threads due to excess vacuum. ((photo by Hippysmack)) | | + | | Damaged lower rocker box gasket. ((photo by 4-pac of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=254258)) \\ (caused by sandwiching sensor wire with gasket) | |
| - | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:damaged_lower_rocker_box_gasket_by_4-pac.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:potential_cc_pressure_leaks_at_the_rocker_box_by_daggar_rider_labeled_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:bad_rocker_box_fiber_washer_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}| | + | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:damaged_lower_rocker_box_gasket_by_4-pac.jpg?direct&300|}}| |
| + | |||
| + | | Potential oil leak areas of rocker boxes. ((photo by dagger rider of the XLFORUM )) |Fiber washers will crush in the center and leak \\ around threads due to excess vacuum. ((photo by Hippysmack)) |Replace the washers with new OEM ones. \\ Or consider swapping to copper washers. \\ CHECK BREATHER VALVES ALSO. ((photo by jordan1200 of the XLFORUM))| | ||
| + | |{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:potential_cc_pressure_leaks_at_the_rocker_box_by_daggar_rider_labeled_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:engmech:bad_rocker_box_fiber_washer_by_hippysmack.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:engmech:cometic_rocker_box_washers_by_jordan1200.jpg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| | Leak with pinched gasket. ((photo by sep69 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3754227)) \\ (can cause crankcase pressure problems) | Leak with non pinched gasket. ((photo by Skuzeee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073161&page=2)) \\ (can be caused by crankcase pressure problems) | Worn / leaking HD lower gasket. ((photo by repairguy of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=612035)) \\ (can be caused by improper torque) | | | Leak with pinched gasket. ((photo by sep69 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=3754227)) \\ (can cause crankcase pressure problems) | Leak with non pinched gasket. ((photo by Skuzeee of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073161&page=2)) \\ (can be caused by crankcase pressure problems) | Worn / leaking HD lower gasket. ((photo by repairguy of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=612035)) \\ (can be caused by improper torque) | | ||
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| |This seemingly case seam leak turned out to be a leak at the point where the stator wire grommet comes through the primary case. The oil would pool up on top \\ of the transmission during riding and when parked would run down the back and onto the ground. Every morning, after riding, there would be a 6" oil pool under \\ the bike. These pics are underneath from the rear at the transmission. ((photos by Joe Promedio of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=4c72b9196b3bbb5eba4dd0f61f777757&t=1521789&page=3))||| | |This seemingly case seam leak turned out to be a leak at the point where the stator wire grommet comes through the primary case. The oil would pool up on top \\ of the transmission during riding and when parked would run down the back and onto the ground. Every morning, after riding, there would be a 6" oil pool under \\ the bike. These pics are underneath from the rear at the transmission. ((photos by Joe Promedio of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?s=4c72b9196b3bbb5eba4dd0f61f777757&t=1521789&page=3))||| | ||
| |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:possible_weeping_case_seam_pic1_by_joe_promedio.jpeg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:possible_weeping_case_seam_pic2_by_joe_promedio.jpeg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:possible_weeping_case_seam_pic3_by_joe_promedio.jpeg?direct&300|}}| | |{{:techtalk:evo:oil:possible_weeping_case_seam_pic1_by_joe_promedio.jpeg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:possible_weeping_case_seam_pic2_by_joe_promedio.jpeg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:evo:oil:possible_weeping_case_seam_pic3_by_joe_promedio.jpeg?direct&300|}}| | ||
| + | |||
| + | ===== Timing Inspection Plug / Drain Plugs ===== | ||
| + | |||
| + | * **These have been common areas for an oil leaks**. | ||
| + | * Over-torque during installation and heat / expansion during use seems to be the primary cause of distorting the threads. | ||
| + | * **1986-2003 engines (only) have a removable timing inspection plug**. | ||
| + | * Look for stripped threads or fixes by the PO that may not have sealed properly. | ||
| + | * **Repair**. (see these links in the Sportsterpedia) | ||
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech01a|Timing Inspection Hole and Plug - Sealing and Thread Repair]] | ||
| + | * [[techtalk:ref:engmech01d|Drain Plug Sealing and Temporary Fixes]] | ||
| + | |||
| + | {{:techtalk:evo:oil:timing_hole_plug_leak_on_01_xl1200_by_mds78.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by mds78 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=4607531)) | ||
| ===== Oil Filter Housing ===== | ===== Oil Filter Housing ===== | ||
| Line 339: | Line 351: | ||
| * **The best way to find out if the oil tank is leaking is to clean it up** (try some blue dawn and a nylon brush). \\ (and use some spray SOFT-N-DRI or talcum powder in the area). | * **The best way to find out if the oil tank is leaking is to clean it up** (try some blue dawn and a nylon brush). \\ (and use some spray SOFT-N-DRI or talcum powder in the area). | ||
| * **Periodically inspect all oil hose connections for leaks or cracks / deteriation, especially before long rides**. | * **Periodically inspect all oil hose connections for leaks or cracks / deteriation, especially before long rides**. | ||
| + | * Replace any lines that are cracked. | ||
| + | * They have been known to have the inner rubber come loose and form a sort of flap valve inside the oil line. ((Hopper of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1651226&highlight=slinger&page=2)) | ||
| * **Restricted oil tank vent line**. | * **Restricted oil tank vent line**. | ||
| - | * Oil carry over may occur while driving the vehicle at highway speeds. The amount of carry over is directly related to the amount of restriction. ((HD Tech Tips dated November 8, 1985)) \\ More restriction equals more carryover. \\ In most cases the restriction is minor and translates to a small amount of carry over, which if left alone creates a bothersome mess. \\ Start looking for pinched hoses or a restrictive oil filter. | + | * Oil carry over may occur while driving the vehicle at highway speeds. The amount of carry over is directly related to the amount of restriction. ((HD Tech Tips dated November 8, 1985)) \\ More restriction equals more carryover. \\ In most cases the restriction is minor and translates to a small amount of carry over, which if left alone creates a bothersome mess. \\ Start looking for pinched hoses or a restrictive oil filter. \\ Pull the line off at the tank and make sure you can blow through it into the cam gear case. \\ Then blow through the oil tank fitting with the lid off and make sure that path is clear. |
| * There is a Service Bulletin for 04-later engines discussing proper oil tank vent hose routing with illustrations. \\ You can download the bulletin PDF, M-1143, [[techtalk:miscres:miscres05|from this page in the Sportsterpedia]]. | * There is a Service Bulletin for 04-later engines discussing proper oil tank vent hose routing with illustrations. \\ You can download the bulletin PDF, M-1143, [[techtalk:miscres:miscres05|from this page in the Sportsterpedia]]. | ||
| * **Oil tank drain lines**. | * **Oil tank drain lines**. | ||
| Line 351: | Line 365: | ||
| ==== Overfilled oil tank ==== | ==== Overfilled oil tank ==== | ||
| - | [[techtalk:ref:oil01#overfilling_the_oil_tank|More on Overfilling the Oil Tank here]] in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ [[techtalk:ref:oil04#oil_tank_pressure|More on Oil Tank Pressure here]]. \\ How about that oil sucking gremlin that steals half a quart every evening? You feel compelled to bring that oil level up to spec the next morning. ((HD Tech Tips dated November 8, 1985)) | + | [[techtalk:ref:oil01#overfilling_the_oil_tank|More on Overfilling the Oil Tank here]] in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia. \\ [[techtalk:ref:oil20|More on Oil Tank Pressure here]]. \\ How about that oil sucking gremlin that steals half a quart every evening? You feel compelled to bring that oil level up to spec the next morning. ((HD Tech Tips dated November 8, 1985)) |
| * **This has been the single most reason for oil puking out the breather vent(s) / air cleaner and popping the oil cap on Evo Sportsters**. | * **This has been the single most reason for oil puking out the breather vent(s) / air cleaner and popping the oil cap on Evo Sportsters**. | ||
| * Before topping off the oil tank, run the engine if possible for about a 30 min. ride. | * Before topping off the oil tank, run the engine if possible for about a 30 min. ride. | ||
| Line 363: | Line 377: | ||
| * However, that is more like using a band-aid to cover a more important underlying condition of too much total crankcase pressure. \\ This condition doesn't just go away when you lower the oil level. | * However, that is more like using a band-aid to cover a more important underlying condition of too much total crankcase pressure. \\ This condition doesn't just go away when you lower the oil level. | ||
| * Likewise, when you increase your oil level, you decrease your crankcase empty space volume. \\ This may increase the pressure in the crankcase __if__ your vent(s) are not keeping up. \\ This is the reason that running a higher (or proper) level of oil has the effect of contributing to rocker cover leaks or oil puking from the air filter. \\ See also [[techtalk:ref:oil04#crankcase_pressure_venting_in_the_oil_tank|Crankcase Pressure / Venting in the Oil Tank]] in the Sportsterpedia. | * Likewise, when you increase your oil level, you decrease your crankcase empty space volume. \\ This may increase the pressure in the crankcase __if__ your vent(s) are not keeping up. \\ This is the reason that running a higher (or proper) level of oil has the effect of contributing to rocker cover leaks or oil puking from the air filter. \\ See also [[techtalk:ref:oil04#crankcase_pressure_venting_in_the_oil_tank|Crankcase Pressure / Venting in the Oil Tank]] in the Sportsterpedia. | ||
| - | * **Blowing the oil cap off could from too much oil in the tank or (on 04 and later models) it could be from broken internals in the cap itself**. \\ Click here to see [[techtalk:evo:oil04b|04 Style Oil Cap Repair]]. | + | * **Blowing the oil cap off could from too much oil in the tank or (on 04 and later models) it could be from broken internals in the cap itself**. \\ Click here to see [[techtalk:evo:oil04g#style_oil_cap_repair|04 Style Oil Cap Repair]]. |
| ==== Cracked Oil Tank ==== | ==== Cracked Oil Tank ==== | ||
| Line 435: | Line 449: | ||
| - Driving at steady highway speeds? See [[techtalk:ref:oil10|Click here for Wet Sumping]] at high RPM. | - Driving at steady highway speeds? See [[techtalk:ref:oil10|Click here for Wet Sumping]] at high RPM. | ||
| - After the bike's been sitting for a couple of days and you start it up? See [[techtalk:ref:oil10#sit_sumpimg|Click here for Sit Sumping]]. | - After the bike's been sitting for a couple of days and you start it up? See [[techtalk:ref:oil10#sit_sumpimg|Click here for Sit Sumping]]. | ||
| - | - Is the oil tank cap popping off? See [[techtalk:ref:oil01#overfilling_the_oil_tank|Overfilling the Oil Tank]] and [[techtalk:ref:oil04#oil_tank_pressure|Oil Tank Pressure]] in the Sportsterpedia. | + | - Is the oil tank cap popping off? See [[techtalk:ref:oil01#overfilling_the_oil_tank|Overfilling the Oil Tank]] and [[techtalk:ref:oil20|Oil Tank Pressure]] in the Sportsterpedia. |
| - **Clean the affected area and ride or run the bike and reproduce the problem with the breather hose in a baby bottle (or other) test catch can** [[techtalk:ref:engmech04?s[]=catch&s[]=can#breather_catch_can_test_for_oil_leaks_out_the_vent|as described here]]. \\ This will help you better understand the amount of carryover you're dealing with. \\ | - **Clean the affected area and ride or run the bike and reproduce the problem with the breather hose in a baby bottle (or other) test catch can** [[techtalk:ref:engmech04?s[]=catch&s[]=can#breather_catch_can_test_for_oil_leaks_out_the_vent|as described here]]. \\ This will help you better understand the amount of carryover you're dealing with. \\ | ||
| - **Start the diagnostics and separate the systems qualifying each one as you go**. | - **Start the diagnostics and separate the systems qualifying each one as you go**. | ||
