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techtalk:ref:wheels12 [2020/06/25 18:31] – [Non Sportster HD Master Cylinders] hippysmacktechtalk:ref:wheels12 [2025/08/17 01:30] (current) – [Got the Caliper But What Size Master Cylinder to Use?] hippysmack
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 ====== REF: Wheels, Brakes & Tires ====== ====== REF: Wheels, Brakes & Tires ======
 \\ \\
 +
 +{{ :common:brakes-animation_by_graywolf.gif?nolink |animation by Graywolf of the XLFORUM}} \\
 ====== Brake System Upgrades ====== ====== Brake System Upgrades ======
 \\ \\
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 ===== Calculating M/C to Caliper Ratio ===== ===== Calculating M/C to Caliper Ratio =====
  
-  * First get the area of the master cylinder pistons. The area of a circle is the amount of space the circle covers. ((cjburr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44210))+  * First get the area of the master cylinder pistons. The area of a circle is the amount of space the circle covers. ((cjburr of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/26692-what-size-master-cylinder-for-multi-pistons?t=44210))
     * The formula for calculating the area of a circle is A = πr² where pi (π) equals 3.14 and the radius (r) is half the diameter.     * The formula for calculating the area of a circle is A = πr² where pi (π) equals 3.14 and the radius (r) is half the diameter.
     * Or 3.14 x (r x r) = piston area (for one piston).     * Or 3.14 x (r x r) = piston area (for one piston).
-  * The pressure is arrived at by Pascals law. ((cjburr of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44210))+  * The pressure is arrived at by Pascals law. ((cjburr of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/26692-what-size-master-cylinder-for-multi-pistons?t=44210))
     * F (force) = P (pressure) X A (area) or P (pressure) = F (force) ÷ A (area).     * F (force) = P (pressure) X A (area) or P (pressure) = F (force) ÷ A (area).
     * So with a 10 lbs force at the 5/8" break lever, we get P = 10 ÷ 0.306640625 where P = 32.6 PSI. \\ You would then multiply 32.6 by the area of the piston in the brake caliper to find the actual pressure applied to the disc by each brake piston.     * So with a 10 lbs force at the 5/8" break lever, we get P = 10 ÷ 0.306640625 where P = 32.6 PSI. \\ You would then multiply 32.6 by the area of the piston in the brake caliper to find the actual pressure applied to the disc by each brake piston.
- 
  
 ===== Master Cylinder to Wheel Cylinder Ratio ===== ===== Master Cylinder to Wheel Cylinder Ratio =====
- 
 Conversions: \\ Conversions: \\
   * 7/16" = 11.1125mm   * 7/16" = 11.1125mm
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   * 5/8" = 15.875mm   * 5/8" = 15.875mm
   * 3/4" = 19.05mm   * 3/4" = 19.05mm
 +  * 1-3/8" = 34.9mm
 +  * 1-3/4" = 44.5mm
 +  * 1-7/8" = 47.6mm
  
-  * General rule of thumb when swapping master cylinders is: ((XLdaveR of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=786022))+  * General rule of thumb when swapping master cylinders is: ((XLdaveR of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/94666-question-about-master-cylinders?t=786022))
     * Bigger M/C = More pressure required to compress brake lever, less lever travel. \\ The MoCo reduced pressure at the caliper in dual discs systems with a larger master cylinder piston.     * Bigger M/C = More pressure required to compress brake lever, less lever travel. \\ The MoCo reduced pressure at the caliper in dual discs systems with a larger master cylinder piston.
     * Smaller M/C = Less pressure required, more lever travel. \\ If the area of the master cylinder piston is reduced, the pressure at the caliper increases. \\ A smaller master cylinder piston used in a dual disc system would make it too easy to lock up the brakes and make for an unsafe system.     * Smaller M/C = Less pressure required, more lever travel. \\ If the area of the master cylinder piston is reduced, the pressure at the caliper increases. \\ A smaller master cylinder piston used in a dual disc system would make it too easy to lock up the brakes and make for an unsafe system.
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 \\ \\
  
-From sml1226 of the XLFORUM ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1990492&highlight=master+ratio)) \\+From sml1226 of the XLFORUM ((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/186079-calculating-for-new-brakes?t=1990492&highlight=master+ratio)) \\
 <blockquote>The ratio charts don't exactly tell you precisely what you need, but it does provide what you need to match your master cylinder to your calipers. \\ <blockquote>The ratio charts don't exactly tell you precisely what you need, but it does provide what you need to match your master cylinder to your calipers. \\
 It does NOT tell you the effect on stopping power, and it doesn't consider your rotor, wheel diameter or bike's weight, all of which affect braking. \\ It does NOT tell you the effect on stopping power, and it doesn't consider your rotor, wheel diameter or bike's weight, all of which affect braking. \\
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 ===== Got the Caliper But What Size Master Cylinder to Use? ===== ===== Got the Caliper But What Size Master Cylinder to Use? =====
- 
 There will be a range of master cylinder diameters which will work for a given set of brake pistons. \\ There will be a range of master cylinder diameters which will work for a given set of brake pistons. \\
 A small master piston will be light to pull on, but will feel spongy and may not give full braking before the lever hits the bars. \\ A small master piston will be light to pull on, but will feel spongy and may not give full braking before the lever hits the bars. \\
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 For instance; \\ For instance; \\
-A 1998 XL1200S came factory with dual brakes with a 11/16" master and (2) 39mm single piston calipers on the front. \\ +A 1998 XL1200S came factory with dual brakes with a 11/16" master and (2) 39mm single - (slider), piston calipers on the front. \\ 
-A 2000 XL1200S came factory with dual brakes with a 11/16" master and (2) (4x33mm) 4 piston calipers on the front. \\+A 2000 XL1200S came factory with dual brakes with a 11/16" master and (2) 4x33mm 4 piston - (2x2 opposed), calipers on the front. \\
 By the chart below, the 1998's M/C to caliper ratio is (9.97:1) and the 2000's ratio is (28.65:1). \\ By the chart below, the 1998's M/C to caliper ratio is (9.97:1) and the 2000's ratio is (28.65:1). \\
 That's quite a difference for very similar bikes and one reason why the 2000-2003 brakes are said to be so much better. \\ That's quite a difference for very similar bikes and one reason why the 2000-2003 brakes are said to be so much better. \\
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 And following the chart, you can see that even if you went to a 3/4" (app 19mm) bore master instead, the ratio is still (24.11:1). \\ And following the chart, you can see that even if you went to a 3/4" (app 19mm) bore master instead, the ratio is still (24.11:1). \\
 But you'll have less lever travel. It's always a tradeoff. \\ But you'll have less lever travel. It's always a tradeoff. \\
- 
  
 ===== Master Cylinder to Wheel Cylinder Ratio Chart ===== ===== Master Cylinder to Wheel Cylinder Ratio Chart =====
- 
- 
 Example for the table below; \\ Example for the table below; \\
 Area of a 10mm bore M/C = 78.54 mm² (3.14 x r² (5 x 5, or 25mm) = 78.54). \\ Area of a 10mm bore M/C = 78.54 mm² (3.14 x r² (5 x 5, or 25mm) = 78.54). \\
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 ^50mm (4)|7854.00|100.00|82.64|69.44|62.00|59.17|51.02|49.62|44.44|39.68|39.06|32.79|27.70| ^50mm (4)|7854.00|100.00|82.64|69.44|62.00|59.17|51.02|49.62|44.44|39.68|39.06|32.79|27.70|
  
 +====== Non Sportster HD Master Cylinders ======
 +
 +  * [[techtalk:ref:wheels12a|List of (Non Sportster) HD Front Master Cylinders]]
 +  * [[techtalk:ref:wheels12b|VROD Brembo Caliper Install on 2007 883L]]
 +  * [[techtalk:ref:wheels12c|XR1200 brakes on a 2007 1200R]]
 +
 +====== Brembo Calipers ======
  
-====== Brembo ====== 
  
 ===== 4 Piston Brembo ===== ===== 4 Piston Brembo =====
 ==== Rebuilding ==== ==== Rebuilding ====
- 
 No one should be afraid of rebuilding a brake caliper. They are one of the most simple components you will find on a motorcycle. \\ No one should be afraid of rebuilding a brake caliper. They are one of the most simple components you will find on a motorcycle. \\
 Two halves, a few pistons and a variety of O-rings. Simply order a rebuild kit for your caliper and buy some fresh brake fluid. \\ Two halves, a few pistons and a variety of O-rings. Simply order a rebuild kit for your caliper and buy some fresh brake fluid. \\
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 If you don’t already have one go buy a service manual for your bike. They are invaluable. \\ If you don’t already have one go buy a service manual for your bike. They are invaluable. \\
  
-{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:vrod_brembo_front_caliper_rebuild_1_by_bassboy311.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by bassboy311 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1127805)) {{:techtalk:ref:wheels:vrod_brembo_front_caliper_rebuild_2_by_bassboy311.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by bassboy311 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1127805)) {{:techtalk:ref:wheels:vrod_brembo_front_caliper_rebuild_3_by_bassboy311.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by bassboy311 of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1127805)) \\+{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:vrod_brembo_front_caliper_rebuild_1_by_bassboy311.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by bassboy311 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/117093-how-to-rebuild-a-brake-caliper?t=1127805)) {{:techtalk:ref:wheels:vrod_brembo_front_caliper_rebuild_2_by_bassboy311.jpg?direct&250|}} ((photo by bassboy311 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/117093-how-to-rebuild-a-brake-caliper?t=1127805)) {{:techtalk:ref:wheels:vrod_brembo_front_caliper_rebuild_3_by_bassboy311.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by bassboy311 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/117093-how-to-rebuild-a-brake-caliper?t=1127805)) \\
  
-====== GMA ======+====== GMA Calipers ======
  
 ===== GMA-200E ===== ===== GMA-200E =====
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   * **Not recommended for use with imported stainless steel rotors**.    * **Not recommended for use with imported stainless steel rotors**. 
  
 +|GMA 4-pot calipers on a 1977 XLH ((photo by BLIGHT of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/86228-gimme-a-break-er-some-brakes/page3?t=667563&page=3))|GMA 4-pot calipers on a 1978 XLH ((photos by ericfreeman of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/86228-gimme-a-break-er-some-brakes/page3?t=667563&page=3)) \\ Custom brake lines & angled banjo adapter to make bleeding the calipers easier.||
 +|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:1977_xlh_w_gma_caliper_by_blight.jpg?direct&300|}}|{{:techtalk:ref:wheels:1978_xlh_w_gma_caliper_pic1_by_ericfreeman.jpg?direct&300|}}| {{:techtalk:ref:wheels:1978_xlh_w_gma_caliper_pic2_by_ericfreeman.jpg?direct&300|}}|
  
- +====== Wilwood Calipers ======
- +
-====== Wilwood ======+
   * [[techtalk:ref:wheels12g|Wilwood GP-310 Brake Caliper on 1996 XL1200]]   * [[techtalk:ref:wheels12g|Wilwood GP-310 Brake Caliper on 1996 XL1200]]
 ===== 4 Piston Wilwood ===== ===== 4 Piston Wilwood =====
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     * Pad Volume (in³): 0.63      * Pad Volume (in³): 0.63 
  
-  * Galfer pads: ((bplinson of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=73101))+  * Galfer pads: ((bplinson of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/37011-wilwood-caliper-replacement-pad-part-s?t=73101))
     * FD068G1054 = Organic     * FD068G1054 = Organic
     * FD068G1375 = Sintered     * FD068G1375 = Sintered
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 Galfer (800) 685-6633 \\ Galfer (800) 685-6633 \\
 Caliper Bolt Torque (per Wilwood): 22 ft-lbs \\ Caliper Bolt Torque (per Wilwood): 22 ft-lbs \\
- 
- 
  
 ====== Experiences from XLFORUM Members ====== ====== Experiences from XLFORUM Members ======
- +From Randy_rots: ((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-tires-wheels-and-brakes-aa/169230-master-cylinder-size-w-4-piston-caliper?t=1815643)) \\
-From Randy_rots: ((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1815643)) \\+
 What counts the most is the summary size of all the pistons. I was messing up with various calipers and master cylinders. \\ What counts the most is the summary size of all the pistons. I was messing up with various calipers and master cylinders. \\
 Here's what I found: \\ Here's what I found: \\
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   - XL 14mm MC and 2000-2003 4 pot single caliper (not tested yet but I belive it will feel better than with 9/16" MC since it's little smalled I.D.)   - XL 14mm MC and 2000-2003 4 pot single caliper (not tested yet but I belive it will feel better than with 9/16" MC since it's little smalled I.D.)
   - XL 1/2" MC and Brembo 4 pot single caliper (32mm piston size) - not tested yet but I believe it will be the best way to go   - XL 1/2" MC and Brembo 4 pot single caliper (32mm piston size) - not tested yet but I believe it will be the best way to go
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