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techtalk:ref:genmsr01 [2019/04/23 07:44] – [Basic Troubleshooting] ixl2relaxtechtalk:ref:genmsr01 [2024/01/15 18:46] (current) – hippysmack
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   * Calm & Patient   * Calm & Patient
   * Accurate & Methodical   * Accurate & Methodical
-  * Thoughtful & Thorough+  * Logical & Thorough
  
 The most common cause of frustration is jumping to (wrong) conclusions. You hear it or see it, make a snap decision of the problem and then focus all your attention on that assumption. As Hippysmack points out, you need to detach yourself from what you think, or believe so strongly in, so you can strictly focus on what you can prove.\\ The most common cause of frustration is jumping to (wrong) conclusions. You hear it or see it, make a snap decision of the problem and then focus all your attention on that assumption. As Hippysmack points out, you need to detach yourself from what you think, or believe so strongly in, so you can strictly focus on what you can prove.\\
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 We generally suggest doing certain tests because we have found the results to be important indicators of where to look for the source of the problems. Often times, the original poster (with the problem) doesn't understand why we're asking a certain question or when given a list, simply overlooks EACH and EVERY test check suggested. But, in most cases, EACH and EVERY test was intended to produce usable information toward a solution. We generally suggest doing certain tests because we have found the results to be important indicators of where to look for the source of the problems. Often times, the original poster (with the problem) doesn't understand why we're asking a certain question or when given a list, simply overlooks EACH and EVERY test check suggested. But, in most cases, EACH and EVERY test was intended to produce usable information toward a solution.
  
-Long-distance diagnostics requires lots of accurate and specific information so that 'WE SEE' what you see. and maybe see what you don't see. And that is where having a video (or pics) of 'the problem' can be evaluated & assessed for help from afar. The perception may be the same as you had, but it might also be perceived quite differently because of other's experiences and knowledge, even though they are remotely located, trying to assess what is actually happening and why.+Take one test and follow it thru to completion - AND ACCURATELY REPORT THE RESULTS so others know the facts. Jumping around between different tests, intermixing the test results in your report or only doing part of a test can all create more confusion and prevent getting to a solution. 
 + 
 +Long-distance diagnostics requires lots of accurate and specific information so that 'WE SEE' what you see - and maybe see what you don't see. And that is where having a video (or pics) of 'the problem' can be evaluated & assessed for help from afar. The perception may be the same as you had, but it might also be perceived quite differently because of other's experiences and knowledge, even though they are remotely located, trying to assess what is actually happening and why.
  
 **Be Patient, Be Accurate, Be Methodical & Be Thorough.** **Be Patient, Be Accurate, Be Methodical & Be Thorough.**
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 ===== First Things First ===== ===== First Things First =====
  
-Here are some succinct rules posted by Ryder Rick:((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2069931))+Here are some succinct rules posted by Ryder Rick:((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/193811-shuts-down-after-30-miles?t=2069931))
   * Rule# 1 don't work on the fuel system for an electrical problem!   * Rule# 1 don't work on the fuel system for an electrical problem!
   * Rule# 2 don't work on the electrics for a fuel problem!   * Rule# 2 don't work on the electrics for a fuel problem!
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   * Rule# 4 never go on test rides without a handful of tools.   * Rule# 4 never go on test rides without a handful of tools.
-  * Rule# 5 never go on test rides without a cell phone in your pocket. 
     * TOOLS are like a magic talisman - if you carry them, you rarely need them.     * TOOLS are like a magic talisman - if you carry them, you rarely need them.
 +  * Rule# 5 never go on test rides without a cell phone in your pocket.
  
 \\ \\
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 ===== Starter Won't Turn Over ===== ===== Starter Won't Turn Over =====
  
-The place to start with any electrical problem is to make sure the battery is in good shape & your ground connections are solid. Go to this section of the Sportsterpedia and [[techtalk:evo:elec01|Verify Voltages & Grounds]]. The return here if all that checks out.+The place to start with any electrical problem is to make sure the battery is in good shape & your ground connections are solid. Go to this section of the Sportsterpedia and [[techtalk:evo:elec01|Verify Voltages & Grounds]]. If all that checks out, then return here to follow the rest of these tests.
  
 If the engine/starter will not turn over at all and you have verified both voltage & grounds are good, then you need to trace the voltage to the starter. Use your volt meter on the 20v DC scale and begin checking each of the following points. This is a general overview (for any bike) of the path that power takes to reach the starter motor. If the engine/starter will not turn over at all and you have verified both voltage & grounds are good, then you need to trace the voltage to the starter. Use your volt meter on the 20v DC scale and begin checking each of the following points. This is a general overview (for any bike) of the path that power takes to reach the starter motor.
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   - Starter Solenoid   - Starter Solenoid
   - Starter Motor   - Starter Motor
 +
 +Obviously, to test at some of these points will require having the Keyswitch ON,\\
 +the RUN/STOP switch in the RUN Mode and the Start Button pressed.
  
 As a **quick test** to identify what part of the circuit\\ As a **quick test** to identify what part of the circuit\\
 is not getting or passing power, set your meter on 20vDC scale\\ is not getting or passing power, set your meter on 20vDC scale\\
-and test for voltage at these locations:+and test for voltage at these easily accessed locations:
  
   *   -1- At the Battery\\   *   -1- At the Battery\\
   *   -2- Incoming to the Main Fuse\\   *   -2- Incoming to the Main Fuse\\
-  *   -4- Incoming to the Ignition Fuse\\ +  *   -4- Incoming to the Ignition Fuse (Keyswitch ON)\\ 
-  *   -8- Incoming to the Solenoid\\+  *   -8- Incoming to the Solenoid (Keyswitch, RUN Mode & Start Button)\\
  
 Once you know which part of the circuit does not have power,\\ Once you know which part of the circuit does not have power,\\
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 **If all these have power, the motor should be turning.** **If all these have power, the motor should be turning.**
  
-**As mentioned in the SP section on Voltages & Grounds,+**As mentioned in the [[techtalk:evo:elec01|SP section on Voltages & Grounds]],
 check all grounds in the system:** check all grounds in the system:**
  
 __With keyswitch OFF__ - Set meter to 20v DC\\ __With keyswitch OFF__ - Set meter to 20v DC\\
 Clamp RED meter probe to Positive Post of Battery\\ Clamp RED meter probe to Positive Post of Battery\\
--Measure Reference Voltage by putting BLACK meter probe\\+-Measure __Reference Voltage__ by putting BLACK meter probe\\
 - on Negative Post of Battery - Write down this voltage\\ - on Negative Post of Battery - Write down this voltage\\
  
 Now move the BLACK meter probe to any point on the bike\\ Now move the BLACK meter probe to any point on the bike\\
 that should be grounded and the meter should read the same\\ that should be grounded and the meter should read the same\\
-as the Reference Voltage did across the battery itself.\\+as the __Reference Voltage__ (battery, post to post).\\
  
 Test with the BLACK meter probe on the frame, engine,\\ Test with the BLACK meter probe on the frame, engine,\\
 starter housing, handlebars, etc. Anywhere that should\\ starter housing, handlebars, etc. Anywhere that should\\
-be grounded should read the same as Refernce Voltage.\+be grounded should read the same as the __Refernce Voltage__.\
  
  
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 ===== Basic Diagnosis - Won't Start ===== ===== Basic Diagnosis - Won't Start =====
  
-As Rick points out, it's a good idea to divide and conquer.+As Rick points out, it's a good idea to divide and conquer.((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/193811-shuts-down-after-30-miles?t=2069931))
  
 There are three things required for combustion:\\ There are three things required for combustion:\\
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 We can quickly check B & C. These are the more likely suspects if the engine has been running just previously. We can quickly check B & C. These are the more likely suspects if the engine has been running just previously.
  
-If the bike will not start, find out if the problem is fuel or spark related. The quickest way to tell if the 'No Start' problem is fuel, is to give it a quick shot of 'Starting Fluid'. If it tries to start and runs a second or two, then the problem is likely the fuel supply (somewhere - tank, petcock, carb, etc.). If it doesn't try to start with this short shot of fluid, then it is likely missing the spark. You can test for spark by pulling a plug or using a spare. Put the plug in a plug wire, ground the plug to the engine fins, and crank the engine. Doing this for each spark plug wire should show a good spark across the gap.+If the bike will not start, find out if the problem is fuel or spark related. 
 + 
 +The quickest way to tell if the 'No Start' problem is fuel, is to give it a quick shot of 'Starting Fluid'. If it tries to start and runs a second or two, then the problem is likely the fuel supply (somewhere - tank, petcock, carb, etc.). **DO NOT continue to use starting fluid to run the engine.** It will quickly wash the cylinders of oil. One shot should indicate whether the issue is fuel - then track down the exact source of the problem. 
 + 
 +If it doesn't try to start with this short shot of fluid, then it is likely missing the spark. You can test for spark by pulling a plug or using a spare. Put the plug in a plug wire, ground the plug to the engine fins, and crank the engine. Doing this for each spark plug & wire should show a good spark across the gap. Obviously, if no spark, it's not going to fire the engine.
  
 This kind of dividing results can quickly help you direct your attention to the problem area for many types of issues. This kind of dividing results can quickly help you direct your attention to the problem area for many types of issues.
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   * CRITICAL - Manually Hold Carb Slide Open & Fully Twist Open Throttle   * CRITICAL - Manually Hold Carb Slide Open & Fully Twist Open Throttle
   * Crank Engine about 5-7 cycles - Repeat procedure on Rear Cylinder   * Crank Engine about 5-7 cycles - Repeat procedure on Rear Cylinder
-  * Preferred Minimum 883=120psi - 1200=150psi (may be a little lower on cold engine)+  * Preferred Minimum 883=120psi - 1200=150psi - 2004+ 1200=180psi (cold engine may be lower)
   * Having both Cold & Warm Readings can be helpful - Let engine completely cool - Take Reading on Each Cylinder   * Having both Cold & Warm Readings can be helpful - Let engine completely cool - Take Reading on Each Cylinder
   * Keep a record for later comparison   * Keep a record for later comparison
  
-  * It's also worth checking your timing if you still are having issues - [[techtalk:evo:engctl01#ignition_timing_-_all_models_thru_2003|Timing Info.]]+  * It's also worth checking your timing if you are still having issues where that could be the source of the problem - [[techtalk:evo:engctl01#ignition_timing_-_all_models_thru_2003|Timing Info.]]
  
  
-Where available, always check the Diagnostic Trouble Codes for clues to problem areas.\\ +Where available, always check the [[techtalk:ref:genmsr08|Diagnostic Trouble Codes]] for clues to problem areas.\\ 
-A basic multimeter is an essential tool for doing electrical diagnosis.+A basic multimeter is an essential tool for doing electrical diagnostics.
  
  

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