| Next revision | Previous revision |
| techtalk:ref:carb01v [2019/09/12 20:47] – created hippysmack | techtalk:ref:carb01v [2024/01/10 21:37] (current) – hippysmack |
|---|
| ====== REF: Carburetor, Intake Manifold & Exhaust - Sub-01V ====== | ====== REF: Carburetor, Intake Manifold & Exhaust - Sub-01V ====== |
| \\ | \\ |
| ====== Installing a ThunderJet® on a Super E ====== | ====== S&S G, F and L Series General Information and Pics ====== |
| |
| | The metering circuits of these carbs are configured for the best 1/4 mile performance. No consideration at all was given for street operation or kick starting. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) \\ |
| | These were race only carbs for HD dragsters only, not for street bikes. \\ |
| | That didn't stop anybody from putting them on the street bikes which may be where the bad rap these carbs carry came from. \\ |
| | |
| | The one below has the 'street kit' that was made later to address the missing street manners. \\ |
| | The kit is the bolt on choke and the 1" spacer between the carb and manifold. \\ |
| | After a while these 'G's were replaced by the next model ("GA" & "GB"). \\ |
| | They were a slightly re-metered idle/intermediate circuit to give some street-ability. \\ |
| | The 'GA' was identical to the 'G' except for the re-metering. \\ |
| | The 'GB' was a smaller throat (1-3/4" at throttle butterfly) and more importantly a smaller venturi than the 'G'-'GA' (1-7/8" throat, 1-11/16 venturi). \\ |
| | The 'GA' was just passable as a street carb but it needed at least 70 ci to feed (if not it sucked). \\ |
| | The 'GB' actually was street-able on stock displacement bikes. It wasn't 'tame' though. \\ |
| | You had to cater to its narrow ''sweet spot" that changed with air temp, humidity, barometer, and most of all float level (that constantly creeped higher). \\ |
| | The floats & inlets were still race parts, made to be high flow at small float drops, combined with the metal to metal inlet valve, again a race thing. \\ |
| | The low gas consumptions of cruising on the street, barely opened the valve. \\ |
| | So the mile after mile of street riding vibration wore all the stuff and the float level crept higher. \\ |
| | So if you were OK with constant tinkering with float levels and jetting that needed to be tailored to small atmospheric changes; \\ |
| | (still drag race main metering circuit) you had a carb that lit your bike up like no other. A redhead girlfriend of a carb. \\ |
| | This amount of tinkering and the devotion it took to be on top of it was too much for all but the most race oriented owners. \\ |
| | So, enter the 3rd models. \\ |
| | The infamous 'L' series" ('GAL' & 'GBL'). The 'L' series are great street carbs as long as the right carb went on the right bike. \\ |
| | These are actually totally different carbs from the predecessors as the 1st "street carbs" with real drag tendencies. \\ |
| | All metering circuits are made to be totally street-able as 1st consideration while leaning towards being as drag like as full street-ability will allow. \\ |
| | Boy did they work as intended. \\ |
| | But to the untrained eye, they look the same as the 1st two versions, so they get the same bad rep. \\ |
| | They also have the same fitments. 'GAL' needs 70" min. or they ain't street-able enough. \\ |
| | The 'GBL' is the product of all the previous lessons and it's unsurpassed for 900 or 1000 bikes. \\ |
| | So if the 'GBL' is so great how come it's so obscure? Maybe because, of the 5 versions of side bowls, S&S carbs are usually grouped as only one version. \\ |
| | (if you really knew there were 5 different carbs before the rare "Super A" , you are in a small group). \\ |
| | And 4 of the 5 work like crap on a stock street bike. So those 4 get taken off and sold a lot (adding to the rep). \\ |
| | The last 2 versions, the real L series units were sold from 72 to e75, and bikers being bikers, "if I'm gonna get a S&S, I'm getting the big one. \\ |
| | So not as many "GBL" got sold and the guys who had one didn't ever want to sell it. The one size fits all Super A & B was the response to guys buying the wrong size. \\ |
| | Little known fact: The venturi on a "GBL" is smaller than the venturi on a Tillotson. The Super B is the same as a Tillotson. \\ |
| | |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_4_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_5_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_13_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM)) \\ |
| | |
| | There are 5 different versions of this 'type' made before the Supers replaced them and 2 more versions offered in limited numbers along side the Supers. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/123529-setting-points/page3#post2606131)) \\ |
| | Each of the 7 were tailored to different motor sizes and applications. \\ |
| | Wrong one on wrong motor was/is a disaster in many areas. Throttle response is one of the problems. Although, the right carb on right motor was/is spectacular. \\ |
| | |
| | The 'GBL' was the only one of the 7 designed to be a street carb that would match up to the specific requirements of a stock 900. \\ |
| | It was also 'smallest' of the 7 and it was made side by side with the 'GAL' (biggest). Only 3 years these two models were sold (1972-74) with most being the 'GAL'. \\ |
| | So these carbs are rare, expensive and old and that keeps them under the radar. Many got molested in the ensuing 37 years. \\ |
| | But for the guy who does take the plunge and experiences the way his 900 runs with it puts the 'GBL' in the 'never sell' category. \\ |
| | S&S sand cast carbs were made by us and for our bikes only (made by HD nuts for HD nuts). \\ |
| | All the sand cast units share 3 things: |
| | - No pump. |
| | - The entire throat is precision machined from ac to manifold. |
| | - They have long air column lengths with the discharge tube quite far upstream of throttle butterfly (they hit your leg). |
| | |
| | The entire sand cast gasoline models. (may be out of order): \\ |
| | * G - drag only, big motors. |
| | * GA - drag with slight mods to make 'street-able', big motor. |
| | * GB - same but for small motors. |
| | * GAL - street carb, big motor. |
| | * GBL - street use, small motor. |
| | * Super A - 1st one size fits all, street use. |
| | * Super B - refined Super A, street use. |
| | * MGAL GAL - reintroduced with provisions for snap throttle street, big motor. |
| | * MGL MGAL - with super style main circuit & two jet intermediate circuit, big motor, street. |
| | * Super D - larger Super B, giant motor claimed to be drag only but circuitry is street. |
| | |
| | The first 3 were race only carbs. The rest were street carbs with race tendencies. Mis-application of the first 4 was very common. \\ |
| | G, GA, GAL, F AND FA series are all 1-7/8" butterfly. GB and FB series are both 1-3/4". ((mrmom9r of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) \\ |
| | |
| | ==== S&S G, GA, GAL ==== |
| | The 'G' is the very first S&S carb model ever sold to the public. ((Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_3_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_6_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)){{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_7_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) \\ |
| | |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_2_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_1_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_14_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) \\ |
| | |
| | GAL (center, first pic \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_9_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)){{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_10_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gal_by_monte03.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Monte03 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187894-few-questions-on-s-s-gal-carb?t=2004343)) \\ |
| | |
| | ==== S&S GB & GBL ==== |
| | GB \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_8_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) \\ |
| | |
| | GBL \\ |
| | This carb will be fine on an 88" motor. Here's the basic stuff you need to deal with. \\ |
| | Manifold: use the Super B or Super E manifold. \\ |
| | Air Cleaner: the entire Super B setup is a bolt on to L series. \\ |
| | Throttle: this goes to the action cable of the 2 cable system. Forget the idle cable exists for now. \\ |
| | All sportsters 1972> open the throttle plate when the inner cable retreats into the outer coil. \\ |
| | In other words, the braided cable 'pulls' the throttle plate open. The L series (except mgl) is set up for the 1971< throttle plate actuation. \\ |
| | In this setup the inner cable was not braided. It was a solid wire because the inner wire pushed the throttle plate open. \\ |
| | You need to reverse this action at the carb. |
| | For instance: \\ |
| | 1st get a Super B throttle shaft and install it in the GAL. It's longer on the forward end compared to the GAL shaft. \\ |
| | The added length will allow you to install a second throttle lever assembly on the longer shaft. This lever is also Super B. \\ |
| | See the first pic below. The shaft extension will be less (but still enough) on a GAL. \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/187894-few-questions-on-s-s-gal-carb/page2?t=2004343&page=2)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_10_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)){{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_carbs_11_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) \\ |
| | |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_carb_1_by_monte03.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Monte03 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_carb_2_by_monte03.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Monte03 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page7?t=1022912&page=7)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_carb_3_by_monte03.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Monte03 of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/109699-hot-rod-parts-thread/page9?t=1022912&page=9)) \\ |
| | |
| | FB \\ |
| | Here's an FB converted to an FA with the popular dual float bowl conversion pioneered by Gordon Kately. \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_fb_carb_by_mrmom9r.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by mrmom9r of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) \\ |
| | |
| | Mods \\ |
| | Here is a fabricated 2-1/4" version of an early G style carb (L) below. \\ |
| | And a fabricated 2-3/8" which used a fuel pump with a Holley float bowl and accelerator pump (R). \\ |
| | Ten of the 2-1/4" carbs and 25 of the 2-3/8" carbs were built. Both saw action in AMRA Pro Stock and a few of the 2-3/8"s on the streets of Houston, Tx. \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_modded_g_style_carb_1_by_mrmom.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by mrmom9r of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_modded_g_style_carb_2_by_mrmom.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by mrmom9r of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/166320-need-pics-of-carbs?t=1786621)) \\ |
| | |
| | ====== Throttle Cable ====== |
| | This GBL has a modded bracket to accept any cabling system (push or pull - solid or braided). \\ |
| | {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_throttle_mod_1_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179861-factory-carburetors/page3?t=1932694&page=3)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_throttle_mod_2_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179861-factory-carburetors/page3?t=1932694&page=3)) {{:techtalk:ref:carb:sands_gbl_throttle_mod_3_by_dr_dick.jpg?direct&300|}} ((photo by Dr Dick of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/179861-factory-carburetors/page3?t=1932694&page=3)) \\ |
| |
| \\ | \\ |
