Differences

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--- techtalk:evo:priclutch01 [2023/09/11 13:45]
ixl2relax [Clutch Pack Stack Height]
+++ techtalk:evo:priclutch01 [2024/01/06 04:25] (current)
hippysmack
@@ Line 35: / Line 35: @@
     * Finally, you compress the clutch and install the **retaining ring**.
-See this XLForum Thread - http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2021615
+See this XLForum Thread - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/189592-clutch-install-troubles-clutch-diaphragm-spring?t=2021615
-| On the 4-speed models, the Ball & Ramp\\ Assembly is mounted to the inside of\\ the Primary Cover. This necessitates the\\ removal of the Primary Cover in order to\\ replace either the B&R unit or the\\ Adjuster Bearing unit.\\ \\ \\ \\ This same Ball & Ramp mounting design\\ was carried forward and used on the\\ 1991-1993 5-speed model engines.\\ \\ \\ The 1994 models were the first to place\\ the B&R assembly behind the larger\\ derby cover. | {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:ballrampmount-pre94.jpg?300|}} ((1986 primary cover pic by iron mike - http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2078880)) |
+| On the 4-speed models, the Ball & Ramp\\ Assembly is mounted to the inside of\\ the Primary Cover. This necessitates the\\ removal of the Primary Cover in order to\\ replace either the B&R unit or the\\ Adjuster Bearing unit.\\ \\ \\ \\ This same Ball & Ramp mounting design\\ was carried forward and used on the\\ 1991-1993 5-speed model engines.\\ \\ \\ The 1994 models were the first to place\\ the B&R assembly behind the larger\\ derby cover. | {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:ballrampmount-pre94.jpg?300|}} ((1986 primary cover pic by iron mike - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/ironhead-sportster-motorcycle-talk-1957-1985/201772-late-84-85-primary-cover-to-86-90-cover?t=2078880)) |
 \\
@@ Line 69: / Line 68: @@
 {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-lock.jpg}}((Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-right.jpg?600|}}((Image from jigoe007 from http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2044017 Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-springseat-right.jpg?600|}}((Image from jigoe007 from https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/191597-barnett-extra-plate-kevlar-kit?t=2044017 Annotations created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
 Additional information threads at the XLForum.net:\\
-http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1843303\\
+https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-motor-engine/sportster-motorcycle-engine-conversions/171908-2013-883-cafe-hammer-performance-1250-conversion?t=1843303\\
-http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2044017\\
+https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/191597-barnett-extra-plate-kevlar-kit?t=2044017\\
@@ Line 118: / Line 117: @@
 This explanation of why & how you adjust the clutch release point references information from members on the XLForum.\\
-([[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=168162|THIS_THREAD]] from member XLXR is informative)\\
+([[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/46244-clutch-adjustment-under-derby-cover?t=168162|THIS_THREAD]] from member XLXR is informative)\\
-([[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915|THIS_THREAD]] from member cjburr has some nice pictures of the parts discussed.)
+([[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915|THIS_THREAD]] from member cjburr has some nice pictures of the parts discussed.)
 The adjuster screw under the derby cover controls when the Ball & Ramp begins to move the pressure plate. The pressure plate must move a sufficient range for the clutch plates to move from fully engaged to fully disengaged.
@@ Line 137: / Line 136: @@
 {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchadjustments-diagram.jpg|clutchadjustments-diagram.jpg}}((Illustration created by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
-The diagram illustrates three zones on the Clutch Lever - When fully released, Zone(1) is the 1/8" Cable Free Play where there is no tension whatsoever from the cable pulling on the lever - The lever just sorta dangles there in its mount… As you pull the Clutch Lever toward the handlebar, you reach Zone(2)((Tomcatt of the XLFORUM http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5761621&highlight=clutch#post5761621)) which is the Adjuster Free Play - The cable is now pulling on the Ball & Ramp, rotating it to expand, but it is not pulling on the clutch pressure plate, yet. This brings us to Zone(3)((thanks to Jollly Rogers for the suggestion http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5761695#post5761695)) which occurs when the Ball & Ramp has expanded far enough to actually begin pulling the Clutch Pressure Plate away from the Clutch Pack. Zone(3) continues all the way until the Clutch Lever reaches the handlebar. If adjusted correctly, you will have these three distinct zones in the movement of your Clutch Lever and the Clutch Pack will be fully dis-engaged before the end of Zone(3) - before the lever is against the handlebars.
+The diagram illustrates three zones on the Clutch Lever - When fully released, Zone(1) is the 1/8" Cable Free Play where there is no tension whatsoever from the cable pulling on the lever - The lever just sorta dangles there in its mount… As you pull the Clutch Lever toward the handlebar, you reach Zone(2)((Tomcatt of the XLFORUM https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29621-clutch-adjustment/page7?highlight=clutch#post4317813)) which is the Adjuster Free Play - The cable is now pulling on the Ball & Ramp, rotating it to expand, but it is not pulling on the clutch pressure plate, yet. This brings us to Zone(3)((thanks to Jollly Rogers for the suggestion https://www.xlforum.net/forum/forum-functions/sportsterpedia-com-admin/197389-good-clutch-adjustment-tip#post4317886)) which occurs when the Ball & Ramp has expanded far enough to actually begin pulling the Clutch Pressure Plate away from the Clutch Pack. Zone(3) continues all the way until the Clutch Lever reaches the handlebar. If adjusted correctly, you will have these three distinct zones in the movement of your Clutch Lever and the Clutch Pack will be fully dis-engaged before the end of Zone(3) - before the lever is against the handlebars.
 Zone(2) diminishes as the plates wear. The actual lever free play (Zone(1)) should not change as the clutch plates wear - Here's why:
@@ Line 148: / Line 147: @@
 Eventually the friction zone begins to slide past the point on the clutch lever where Zone(2) meets Zone(1), and the bearing is now fully active, laterally, all the time (since the pressure plate is moving inward as the plates wear) and the Clutch Pack is slipping because the Pressure Plate can no longer fully compress the pack…\\
-(Also see this [[http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1978641|__XLFORUM THREAD__]])
+(Also see this [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/184113-clutch-release-adjustment-does-this-help?t=1978641|__XLFORUM THREAD__]])
 __**MAKING THE CLUTCH RELEASE ADJUSTMENT**__  - Refer to your FSM to be sure this procedure is correct for your particular model - Check/Adjust every 5000 miles (or as needed). Grab the Clutch Lever and squeeze and release a few times before you start - This helps to settle the position of the Release Adjuster.
@@ Line 168: / Line 167: @@
   * The "feel" at the release arm where the clutch cable attaches is very distinct so you have a high degree of confidence you got it right.
   * There should be some play at the release arm to assure there is no preload tension on the Diaphragm Spring & Pressure Plate.
-  * **See this XLForum Post for a discussion of the adjustments:** http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5918480#post5918480\
+  * **See this XLForum Post for a discussion of the adjustments:** https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/203096-2005-xl1200r-clutch-adjustment-issues#post4531677\\
 Now, go back to the Clutch __Cable Adjuster__  - Unscrew the two parts to lengthen the Adjuster just enough that there is still 1/8" of free play in the clutch lever movement BEFORE IT BEGINS TO ENGAGE THE CLUTCH RELEASE (check this at the cable connection to the lever) - Now tighten the Jam Nut on the cable adjuster and move the rubber boot back over it…
@@ Line 226: / Line 225: @@
 When the original style bearing is worn out or damaged, it is a good time to consider an upgrade.\\
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-compare8885-7200b.jpg?400|}}  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-destroyed8885.jpg?400|}}((Pics by goblin_dust at this thread: http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1987885 - Annotated by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-compare8885-7200b.jpg?400|}}  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchreleasebearing-destroyed8885.jpg?400|}}((Pics by goblin_dust at this thread: https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/rubber-mount-sportster-motorcycle-talk-2004-2006/185780-clutch-woes?t=1987885 - Annotated by IXL2Relax at the XLForum))
 For more information, click this link to see the [[techtalk:ref:priclutch02#upgrade_clutch_release_bearing_-_hd_p_n_8885_to_7200b_angular_ball_bearing|Clutch Parts & Mods - Aftermarket]] page in the REFerence section.
@@ Line 311: / Line 310: @@
 \\
-"Beginning in 2004, the 883 models started coming with a lighter clutch spring than the 1200's."((aswracing from http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1953378))\\
+"Beginning in 2004, the 883 models started coming with a lighter clutch spring than the 1200's."((aswracing from https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/181426-i-m-no-sissy-but-clutch-pull?t=1953378))\\
 This was to reduce the effort required to pull the clutch lever. There was also a change in the\\ clutch cable in 2007 to help reduce the clutch lever effort.
-| Notice the difference in the slots between the Diaphragm Spring fingers of '91-'03 and '04-later springs.\\ Above left is an '01 example and on the right is an '06 example. Both are 883 model springs.((http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4923807&postcount=7 - Graywolf))((http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915 - CJBurr))\\ Below are two more examples of diaphragm springs.((pic from IXL2Relax)) ||
+| Notice the difference in the slots between the Diaphragm Spring fingers of '91-'03 and '04-later springs.\\ Above left is an '01 example and on the right is an '06 example. Both are 883 model springs.((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/167902-barnett-clutch-install-questions?postcount=7#post3577542 - Graywolf))((https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915 - CJBurr))\\ Below are two more examples of diaphragm springs.((pic from IXL2Relax)) ||
 |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-assy-01-883-stock-graywolf.jpg?300|}}  |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-assy-06-883-stock-cjburr.jpg?300|}}  |
 |  {{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutch-diaphragm-spring-compare.jpg?600|}}  ||
@@ Line 320: / Line 319: @@
 ====== Spring Plate Failure ======
-As mentioned above, the Spring Plate is located in the middle of the clutch pack. It consists of two separate steel plates attached together with riveted, movable, flat springs sandwiched between the two steel plates. There is a friction plate on either side of the Spring Plate. The idea is to absorb some of the instantaneous force of the clutch engagement and release it over a few microseconds of spring energy transference. [[http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1142229&postcount=44|See this Post#44]]
+As mentioned above, the Spring Plate is located in the middle of the clutch pack. It consists of two separate steel plates attached together with riveted, movable, flat springs sandwiched between the two steel plates. There is a friction plate on either side of the Spring Plate. The idea is to absorb some of the instantaneous force of the clutch engagement and release it over a few microseconds of spring energy transference. [[https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/46244-clutch-adjustment-under-derby-cover/page3?postcount=44#post987366|See this Post#44]]
 {{ :techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-good-westjc7745.jpg?300|}}
@@ Line 335: / Line 334: @@
 Replacing the old Spring Plate with a new, stock Spring Plate is not a typical solution advocated on the XLForum, although it is an available one. Why replace a failure prone part with another of similar weakness?
-The preferred choice is to eliminate the Spring Plate entirely by installing two extra steel plates & one extra friction plate. This works for 91 and up clutches. It is possible to accomplish on 86-90 models but due to the thicker friction plates in them, it will not work unless you have enough wear on your plates to get the total stack height down __below__ 1.5662". ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM  http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5745421#post5745421))  While it is possible to do so on 91 and up models with stock plates, a more typical implementation for 86 and up models is using a complete aftermarket kit of new steel plates & friction plates. There are a number of suppliers of such kits, such as, Energy One, Barnett & Alto, in a number of different materials.
+The preferred choice is to eliminate the Spring Plate entirely by installing two extra steel plates & one extra friction plate. This works for 91 and up clutches. It is possible to accomplish on 86-90 models but due to the thicker friction plates in them, it will not work unless you have enough wear on your plates to get the total stack height down __below__ 1.5662". ((Hippysmack of the XLFORUM  https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-era-specific-and-model-specific/frame-mount-evo-sportster-talk-1986-2003-models/183021-1986-90-evo-sportsters-what-every-owner-should-know-but-were-afraid-to-ask/page22#post4294992))  While it is possible to do so on 91 and up models with stock plates, a more typical implementation for 86 and up models is using a complete aftermarket kit of new steel plates & friction plates. There are a number of suppliers of such kits, such as, Energy One, Barnett & Alto, in a number of different materials.
 This solution does make the clutch engagement a bit more 'grabby' and there is sometimes an associated 'squeel'. But most users prefer the peace-of-mind of eliminating the Spring Plate despite these 'drawbacks'.
@@ Line 352: / Line 351: @@
 Here are images of the carnage resulting from the Spring Plate Failure:\\
-{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-springplaterivets-blown-jbyun.jpg?280|}}((Image by jbyun - xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-rivetdamage-blown-vferdman.jpg?280|}}((Image by vferdman - xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-blown-xlxr.jpg?280|}}((Image by xlxr - xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=302142))
+{{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-springplaterivets-blown-jbyun.jpg?280|}}((Image by jbyun - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:clutchbasket-rivetdamage-blown-vferdman.jpg?280|}}((Image by vferdman - https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/29955-06-clutch-install?t=49915)){{:techtalk:evo:priclutch:springplate-blown-xlxr.jpg?280|}}((Image by xlxr - https://www.xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=302142))
 \\
-**NOTE:** Alto has released an upgraded Spring Plate design for the '91-later Sportsters - Alto P/N 095763HD (as of August 2019). It utilizes Stainless Steel rivets instead of the previous Brass Rivets design. Time will tell if this is more reliable.((Rocketmangb at http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2074441)) [[https://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/Alto__095763HD_Harley_Davidson_Spring_Plate_with_NEW_Stainless_Rivets.pdf|>>>Link To Alto PDF<<<]]
+**NOTE:** Alto has released an upgraded Spring Plate design for the '91-later Sportsters - Alto P/N 095763HD (as of August 2019). It utilizes Stainless Steel rivets instead of the previous Brass Rivets design. Time will tell if this is more reliable.((Rocketmangb at https://www.xlforum.net/forum/sportster-motorcycle-forum/sportster-motorcycle-drivetrain/sportster-motorcycle-transmission-clutch-primary-secondary-drive/197759-grenade-plate?t=2074441)) [[https://www.altousa.com/images/new_products/Alto__095763HD_Harley_Davidson_Spring_Plate_with_NEW_Stainless_Rivets.pdf|>>>Link To Alto PDF<<<]]
 \\

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